Harbinger of Pandamonium
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IRL Gekko
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- Posted: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:42:08 +0000
Don't Quote this!
Out of the interests of your eyes and sanity, I will refrain from typing this entire post in my usual font and size.
"Good" is a relative term in anime, manga/comics or even in real life. This being the AMC I'll keep my examples relevant to the mediums at hand. Continuing on, it's a relative term, because in most anime and comics, you are only provided with one side of the story. With only one side of the story, can you truly decide who is good and who is evil?
Example1. X-men. Typical story about Magneto and the "Brotherhood of evil" versus Professor X and the X-men. However, in reality they were both striving for the same thing no? Magneto wished for the world to be safe for mutants, as did Professor X. Their experiences colored their views on the world, and as such their methods are vastly different. Who is to say which one is truly better for the world? Morals perhaps? Morals vary from person to person. Both Xavier and Magnus believe that what they are doing is right, in a different context, it would be quite easy to see the X-men as traitors of their kind, striving to protect a [human] world that wants to enslave all mutants. Interesting to ponder no?
Example 2:Shaman King. Hao Asakura is portrayed as this evil being who is out to destroy humanity. The way the show is set up, he is the "ultimate boss" that Yoh and the others must overcome. Like Magneto, he wants to eliminate humanity, but also like Magneto he has a reason for what he does. The show only shows one half of the story, that of his enemies. Who is to say that getting rid of what plagues the Earth is a bad thing right? It's safe to say that most of us have cleaned something in our lives in order to make it better/safer to use, so what makes what Hao wants to do so very wrong?
Example 3 biggrin BZ From the perspective of the viewer, Goku and the rest of the Z-fighters are heroes. What about the perspective of the average person? The person that's been killed and resurrected by his actions repeatedly? Or had his or her home destroyed by side effects of their fights. Or of a Namekian? Someone who would never have encountered Frieza had it not been for the presence of Goku on Earth. Clearly it isn't so cut and dry as we'd like to think.
It's fitting and ironic at the same time that a holocaust survivor go on to perpetrate a genocidal agenda.
Just some things to ponder as you watch your anime no?
Feel free to give me some feedback and more examples. If I like them, I'll add them to this post when I get the chance.
This post is constantly changing. surprised
Out of the interests of your eyes and sanity, I will refrain from typing this entire post in my usual font and size.
"Good" is a relative term in anime, manga/comics or even in real life. This being the AMC I'll keep my examples relevant to the mediums at hand. Continuing on, it's a relative term, because in most anime and comics, you are only provided with one side of the story. With only one side of the story, can you truly decide who is good and who is evil?
Example1. X-men. Typical story about Magneto and the "Brotherhood of evil" versus Professor X and the X-men. However, in reality they were both striving for the same thing no? Magneto wished for the world to be safe for mutants, as did Professor X. Their experiences colored their views on the world, and as such their methods are vastly different. Who is to say which one is truly better for the world? Morals perhaps? Morals vary from person to person. Both Xavier and Magnus believe that what they are doing is right, in a different context, it would be quite easy to see the X-men as traitors of their kind, striving to protect a [human] world that wants to enslave all mutants. Interesting to ponder no?
Example 2:Shaman King. Hao Asakura is portrayed as this evil being who is out to destroy humanity. The way the show is set up, he is the "ultimate boss" that Yoh and the others must overcome. Like Magneto, he wants to eliminate humanity, but also like Magneto he has a reason for what he does. The show only shows one half of the story, that of his enemies. Who is to say that getting rid of what plagues the Earth is a bad thing right? It's safe to say that most of us have cleaned something in our lives in order to make it better/safer to use, so what makes what Hao wants to do so very wrong?
Example 3 biggrin BZ From the perspective of the viewer, Goku and the rest of the Z-fighters are heroes. What about the perspective of the average person? The person that's been killed and resurrected by his actions repeatedly? Or had his or her home destroyed by side effects of their fights. Or of a Namekian? Someone who would never have encountered Frieza had it not been for the presence of Goku on Earth. Clearly it isn't so cut and dry as we'd like to think.
Caz_Nova
There's a quote that fits this occasion very nicely, and though I'm sure I won't post it verbatim here it is:
"Nine times out of ten your enemies are just like you. They've got a cause they fight for and believe is right.
Most Gundam series display this, the Zeon aren't wrong, but neither is the Federation, but when shown from the Federation's point of view of course they're generally called evil.
"Nine times out of ten your enemies are just like you. They've got a cause they fight for and believe is right.
Most Gundam series display this, the Zeon aren't wrong, but neither is the Federation, but when shown from the Federation's point of view of course they're generally called evil.
LilyChan
Hmm. I can probably think of another example. (Warning! Spoilers)
Sailor Moon S: The whole plot, I think, has three different points of view. The first view: The sailor scouts. Anyone who takes the pure hearts to kill people MUST be evil. The second view: Sailor Neptune and Uranus. They need to get the pure hearts -- even though they KNEW someone was gonna die -- in order to protect the world from evil. The third and final view: The professor (I forgot his name! gonk ) is taking the pure hearts is to find a way to cure his daughter, Hotaru, from dying (Which is why she turned into Mistress 9. They needed a host body.)
Sailor Moon S: The whole plot, I think, has three different points of view. The first view: The sailor scouts. Anyone who takes the pure hearts to kill people MUST be evil. The second view: Sailor Neptune and Uranus. They need to get the pure hearts -- even though they KNEW someone was gonna die -- in order to protect the world from evil. The third and final view: The professor (I forgot his name! gonk ) is taking the pure hearts is to find a way to cure his daughter, Hotaru, from dying (Which is why she turned into Mistress 9. They needed a host body.)
Dreamkastyr
I agree too. Also, i dunno if u've ever read it, but in Magic Knight Rayearth II Umi said this: "...And even though I'm the hero, the bad guy sees me as a villain. Its very true...
Boko_Sith
You don't really get to see the full side of the "hero" and the "villan".
Example: In Excel Saga, Lord Illpalatzo wants to take over the world to make it a better place. But Kabapu is determined to keep the world safe for it to stay a good and happy place. Each claim the other as evil. Who is right in their ideals?
Example: In Excel Saga, Lord Illpalatzo wants to take over the world to make it a better place. But Kabapu is determined to keep the world safe for it to stay a good and happy place. Each claim the other as evil. Who is right in their ideals?
NamaeX
I thought of this while I was watching Witch Hunter Robin.
Robin Sena is used to aid the STNJ in the capture of witches that abuse their powers for evil. After subduing the witch, The Factory comes in and detains the witch. The Factory then keeps an eye on the friends, family, and coworkers of the witch, just in case witch powers also awaken within them. When signs of awakening powers show themselves, The Factory instantly steps in to capture them too.
With that tone, it seems like the STNJ and The Factory are the good guys.
But imagine if you knew someone close to you were a witch, and one day they were captured by The Factory for abusing their witch powers. Now imagine them keeping close surveillance on you all hours of the day. You're very distraut that a precious person was captured, but even more depressed now that you won't have a moment of privacy. You aren't aware of it, but witch powers are also developing within you. When those powers show themselves, you're very surprised, and The Factory instantly come in to take you away.
Wouldn't you feel like THEY were the villains for invading your privacy against your wishes, as well as assessing and assuming that you'll turn out to be like the friend/relative they had captured?
Robin Sena is used to aid the STNJ in the capture of witches that abuse their powers for evil. After subduing the witch, The Factory comes in and detains the witch. The Factory then keeps an eye on the friends, family, and coworkers of the witch, just in case witch powers also awaken within them. When signs of awakening powers show themselves, The Factory instantly steps in to capture them too.
With that tone, it seems like the STNJ and The Factory are the good guys.
But imagine if you knew someone close to you were a witch, and one day they were captured by The Factory for abusing their witch powers. Now imagine them keeping close surveillance on you all hours of the day. You're very distraut that a precious person was captured, but even more depressed now that you won't have a moment of privacy. You aren't aware of it, but witch powers are also developing within you. When those powers show themselves, you're very surprised, and The Factory instantly come in to take you away.
Wouldn't you feel like THEY were the villains for invading your privacy against your wishes, as well as assessing and assuming that you'll turn out to be like the friend/relative they had captured?
Spider_Jerusalem
How about the suicidal man suing Robert Parr for saving him in The Incredibles? It's not necessarily villainous but it was definately not what the guy wanted.
ReannaKing
One anime that's a good example with no real "evil" characters is Gokudo. Spoilers comin' up.
The hero himself could be described as the living definition of chaotic neutral, so already we've got an antihero going. Many of his traveling companions are, by definition, demons.
Most of those they go up against aren't evil at all, but God-level characters that are simply fighting amongst themselves.
Example, the Dragon God and his sister the Sun God. They're having a siblings' quarrel and Gokudo simply ends up caught in the middle of it.
Then there's Koko and Issa, who do what they do (attempt to sacrifice Gokudo) out of love for each other and their kingdom. On the other hand Niari, who later joins Gokudo, destroys the kingdom and kidnaps its princesses (but is later punished by his mother the Magic Queen).
Then you have Indra (At one point Indra goes off on the value of friendship and the heroes laugh in his face) and Sanzo (yes, this anime has a Sanzo the Monk) who are, by roleplaying terms, lawful good. They see the protagonists as demons or pests that get in the way of their persuit of what they believe to be good and just.
The closest you get to evil is the Magic King, the father of Niari, one of the main characters.
In the meantime, Gokudo, the "hero," is a lying, cheating, backstabbing creep, but he's the protagonist of the whole thing.
The hero himself could be described as the living definition of chaotic neutral, so already we've got an antihero going. Many of his traveling companions are, by definition, demons.
Most of those they go up against aren't evil at all, but God-level characters that are simply fighting amongst themselves.
Example, the Dragon God and his sister the Sun God. They're having a siblings' quarrel and Gokudo simply ends up caught in the middle of it.
Then there's Koko and Issa, who do what they do (attempt to sacrifice Gokudo) out of love for each other and their kingdom. On the other hand Niari, who later joins Gokudo, destroys the kingdom and kidnaps its princesses (but is later punished by his mother the Magic Queen).
Then you have Indra (At one point Indra goes off on the value of friendship and the heroes laugh in his face) and Sanzo (yes, this anime has a Sanzo the Monk) who are, by roleplaying terms, lawful good. They see the protagonists as demons or pests that get in the way of their persuit of what they believe to be good and just.
The closest you get to evil is the Magic King, the father of Niari, one of the main characters.
In the meantime, Gokudo, the "hero," is a lying, cheating, backstabbing creep, but he's the protagonist of the whole thing.
Raven_Darkholme
Nathan_Summers
Since no one else is replying, I'll add in a bit more.
Going back to the X-men and mutants in general, the general public fears and hates them, to them, mutants are evil. However that is just as unfair of a generalization as Magneto saying that all humans are evil. Kind of interesting how that sword works both ways, isn't it?
Going back to the X-men and mutants in general, the general public fears and hates them, to them, mutants are evil. However that is just as unfair of a generalization as Magneto saying that all humans are evil. Kind of interesting how that sword works both ways, isn't it?
It's fitting and ironic at the same time that a holocaust survivor go on to perpetrate a genocidal agenda.
Just some things to ponder as you watch your anime no?
Feel free to give me some feedback and more examples. If I like them, I'll add them to this post when I get the chance.
This post is constantly changing. surprised
