Spider Jerusalem PHD
(?)Community Member
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- Posted: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:00:09 +0000
If you're reading this thread, you probably already know that YAOI is the accepted term for anime and manga that prominantly feature male gay characters. You probably also know that it is a romanji acronym meaning "yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi," which translates as "no peak, no point, no meaning." It's a metaphor for climbing a mountain and finding nothing at the top, which I suppose could also be a vague sexual reference because I have seen it translated as climax instead of peak. Bonus points if you know that it has a second meaning of "Yamete, oshiri ga itai!," or, "stop, my a** hurts!" If you need explanation of that, ask your parents, a teacher, priest or any other person in a position of authority that you can think of. The second meaning is a dirty joke, not a serious definition of YAOI as some may think.
What you might not know is that YAOI refers to indie stuff and doushinji. It's generally derogatory to use it when describing more mainstream material like the kind with Tokyopop's logo on it. This is referred to as BL or Boys Love which is not to be confused with shonen ai, which is a term that is no longer in use. I don't care if Viz or Tokyopop puts that on their manga, it's ******** obsolete and that's all there is to it. Say "shonen-ai" in Japan and you'd likely be interpreted as meaning "shota" which is ***** themed. Basically it's the opposite of Lolita.
With this in mind, you might think that the purpose of YAOI/BL is titillation for gay men, but this is hardly the case as YAOI/BL is a massively popular genre that far excedes the appetite of what would be considered a fringe demographic. There are not enough male homosexual manga/anime buyers to justify the volume and popularity of the subgenre.
The answer to this apparent enigma becomes rather clear when one observes a large anime community such as this; the demographic that purchases the most YAOI/BL are young heterosexual females. This is not unintended or surprising to the publishers or the authors, in fact that's the point.
Ironically enough, the concept and application of what we call YAOI/BL stems from Japanese gender culture specifically, but repeats itself in every dominant society in the modern world. Traditionally in Japan women are subservient to men. This should come as no surprise to anyone, as it is prevalent in anime and manga, and glaringly obvious in such customs as Geishas and eating sushi off a naked woman.
Take the unfortunate case of Sakura in Naruto. She is hopelessly in love with Sasuke, even though he doesn't give a damn about her and even berates her. Sakura is nowhere near his equal and is in fact a very poor student compared to her male peers, specifically Sasuke. This point is driven home by her fervent wish to be as successful as Sasuke is. Even the slacker/class clown Naruto is able to fight far better than Sakura, and she is frequently shown as being cowardly or paralyzed by fright in intense situations.
So now you're saying to yourself Spider what does gay manga have to do with women and where the ******** is that irony you promised me? Well here's your answer; YAOI/BL was created by women for women because a male homosexual relationship is one of equality. Both men enjoy the status in society they enjoy because they are male. This equality does not exist in heterosexual relationships due to the prevailing attitudes. Thus, much like in contemporary western romance novels, the women readers live vicariously through the protagonist who fufills their wish of sexual equality.
This is why you cannot and should not pretend to be down with the cause (in this case gay rights) or claim to understand gay men because you read YAOI. The men in YAOI are for the most part not indicative of homosexual men, and in many cases are not homosexual, they are simply men that have sex with each other.
Take Gravitation for example, that great bastion of YAOI/BL which is probably the most name dropped out of any contemporary YAOI/BL manga.
Ever notice how both characters at several points in the story deny that they're gay or use excuses. Consider that Yuki professes to be heterosexual several times, even shortly before having sex with Shuichi who is most definately not a woman. Furthermore, the idea of homosexuality is not explored or questioned in any kind of a meaningful or relevant way. These are two boys in love, not two gay men.
Take "Fake" for example, in which there is a precinct of NYPD police officers where many of them are gay and no one seems to notice or care. There is an excellent opportunity there to explore how homosexuality is received and delt with in settings that are typically controlled and populated by "macho"(read homophobic) men. Unlike in the American police dramas NYPD Blue and The Shield where the gay characters are few and relegated to supporting roles, but the issue of their homosexuality and how it is received by their co-workers figures prominantly into their apperances. This makes it pretty clear to the casual observer that the author has no intention of being authentic or realistic when addressing the homosexual experience in any way at all.
Which brings me to the point that the majority of YAOI/BL is written by women. Not very gay is it?
While I do not pretend to say that all homosexually oriented manga is ignorant or reductionist of the homosexual experience, it maintains a stranglehold on the genre and has been largely misrepresented and misunderstood by mainstream western audiences who are ignorant of Japanese sexual culture, mostly by no fault of their own.
The most obvious example of the sort of prose that trivializes homosexuality for the enjoyment of a predominantly female audience is what is popularily referred to as "slash fiction" (because it is usually fan fiction dealing with two specific characters). The entire point of slash fiction is to justify a (sexual) relationship between two characters, which is where the YAOI acronym comes into play.
Of course when you mention a sexual relationship, the word pornography will inevidably pop into your head. YAOI/BL, as it is presented for the purpose of this discussion is not pornography. The point of pornography is inspiring or causing sexual stimulation in the viewer/reader by depicting sexual intercourse. The act of sexual intercourse is secondary at best in most YAOI/BL, and a popular theme in it is that it's not about sex, it's about the connection. Which is almost exactly what Shuichi says to Yuki after they have sex for the first time. Furthermore, there is usually an extended post coital scene which is devoted to discussion of their feelings in the stereotypical desire of the heterosexual female.
I should also point out that there is a significant amount of YAOI that is sexually explicit and draws on a demographic of women that are predominantly interested in the portrayal of the sex acts. In fact more than one Gaian of such persuasion have posted in no uncertain terms that the cultural significance of the genre is irrelevant to them and they are only interested in the sexual aspects. In this way, YAOI could be considered to be pornographic in some situations. The point that I am trying to stress is that it is not primarily pornographic, especially BL. YAOI has far more of a tendency and frequency to be sexually explicit. Boys Love means just that. Boys in love. YAOI is a sexual pun, which is reflective of the genre.
Now that we've established that the protagonists of contemporary YAOI/BL are not in fact authentically homosexual men, we now have to figure out what they are. The answer lies in a slang term used to describe the majority of YAOI/BL protagonists and even some straight anime/manga characters. The romanization for the term is bishounen which translates as beautiful boy. However, this term is meant to describe underage characters or individuals and is frequently misused to describe men. The proper equivalent is biseinen or "beautiful man".
Beautiful boy/man is an oxymoron of sorts, because men are usually not described as beautiful, it is more often used to describe women. True to his name, a bishounen/biseinen is a boy/man imbued with the characteristics of a woman in order to idealize him for the female audience. Not only does it present the reader with a "perfect" boy/man lacking the agression or mysogyny of typical males (again specifically those in Japanese literature), these feminine traits also make the idea of living vicariously through the character that much more attractive and possible. They are not so much male, as androgynous characters with male physical traits that serve the purpose of providing sexual equality to the relationship.
The biseinen rarely exists in gay themed manga aimed at gay men. In fact I have been informed of a specific instance in which an ugly character was favored for his skill at oral sex. This is a highly unlikely situation in YAOI/BL which greatly stresses the physical beauty of the characters.
So now you've read my whole big rant and you want to contribute to the discussion but don't know how. Here are some suggestions for questions to ask or answer as a way to guide your learning on the genre:
- How did my thread change your opinion of YAOI/BL? Do you think more or less of it now?
- How much of what I said did you already know?
- Do you feel that publishing YAOI/BL in a country that does not necessarily know of or understand the original context is damaging on that country's male homosexual population?
- Is liking YAOI/BL a valid reason for supporting same sex marriage?
- Should manga/anime importers such as Tokypop and Viz do more to explain the cultural context of YAOI/BL to the reader?
- If you are a female YAOI/BL reader, do you identify with any of the reasons that Japanese women write and read in this genre?
- If you are a male homosexual YAOI/BL reader do you feel that the genre's archtypal characters (biseinen) are potentially damaging to the image and understanding of the homosexual community? Why?
- If you are a male heterosexual YAOI/BL reader what the ******** are you doing reading YAOI/BL?! Just kidding.
- Do not quote any part of the first post in your responce, it is obnoxious and a waste of space.
- I am heterosexual.
- I am not homophobic or anti gay in any way, shape, or form.
- I am not anti-YAOI, I simply believe that it is being widely misinterpreted by western audiences.
- If you are interested in hearing more of my opinions on various subjects, I am currently doing a somewhat weekly blog in which I tackle various subjects and issues. It is accessable by clicking the link under my signature.
- The name of this account comes from the character Spider Jerusalem from the DC/Vertigo comic Transmetropolitan. He is a journalist and I strive to follow his example when posting under this name.
What you might not know is that YAOI refers to indie stuff and doushinji. It's generally derogatory to use it when describing more mainstream material like the kind with Tokyopop's logo on it. This is referred to as BL or Boys Love which is not to be confused with shonen ai, which is a term that is no longer in use. I don't care if Viz or Tokyopop puts that on their manga, it's ******** obsolete and that's all there is to it. Say "shonen-ai" in Japan and you'd likely be interpreted as meaning "shota" which is ***** themed. Basically it's the opposite of Lolita.
With this in mind, you might think that the purpose of YAOI/BL is titillation for gay men, but this is hardly the case as YAOI/BL is a massively popular genre that far excedes the appetite of what would be considered a fringe demographic. There are not enough male homosexual manga/anime buyers to justify the volume and popularity of the subgenre.
The answer to this apparent enigma becomes rather clear when one observes a large anime community such as this; the demographic that purchases the most YAOI/BL are young heterosexual females. This is not unintended or surprising to the publishers or the authors, in fact that's the point.
Ironically enough, the concept and application of what we call YAOI/BL stems from Japanese gender culture specifically, but repeats itself in every dominant society in the modern world. Traditionally in Japan women are subservient to men. This should come as no surprise to anyone, as it is prevalent in anime and manga, and glaringly obvious in such customs as Geishas and eating sushi off a naked woman.
Take the unfortunate case of Sakura in Naruto. She is hopelessly in love with Sasuke, even though he doesn't give a damn about her and even berates her. Sakura is nowhere near his equal and is in fact a very poor student compared to her male peers, specifically Sasuke. This point is driven home by her fervent wish to be as successful as Sasuke is. Even the slacker/class clown Naruto is able to fight far better than Sakura, and she is frequently shown as being cowardly or paralyzed by fright in intense situations.
So now you're saying to yourself Spider what does gay manga have to do with women and where the ******** is that irony you promised me? Well here's your answer; YAOI/BL was created by women for women because a male homosexual relationship is one of equality. Both men enjoy the status in society they enjoy because they are male. This equality does not exist in heterosexual relationships due to the prevailing attitudes. Thus, much like in contemporary western romance novels, the women readers live vicariously through the protagonist who fufills their wish of sexual equality.
This is why you cannot and should not pretend to be down with the cause (in this case gay rights) or claim to understand gay men because you read YAOI. The men in YAOI are for the most part not indicative of homosexual men, and in many cases are not homosexual, they are simply men that have sex with each other.
Take Gravitation for example, that great bastion of YAOI/BL which is probably the most name dropped out of any contemporary YAOI/BL manga.
Ever notice how both characters at several points in the story deny that they're gay or use excuses. Consider that Yuki professes to be heterosexual several times, even shortly before having sex with Shuichi who is most definately not a woman. Furthermore, the idea of homosexuality is not explored or questioned in any kind of a meaningful or relevant way. These are two boys in love, not two gay men.
Take "Fake" for example, in which there is a precinct of NYPD police officers where many of them are gay and no one seems to notice or care. There is an excellent opportunity there to explore how homosexuality is received and delt with in settings that are typically controlled and populated by "macho"(read homophobic) men. Unlike in the American police dramas NYPD Blue and The Shield where the gay characters are few and relegated to supporting roles, but the issue of their homosexuality and how it is received by their co-workers figures prominantly into their apperances. This makes it pretty clear to the casual observer that the author has no intention of being authentic or realistic when addressing the homosexual experience in any way at all.
Which brings me to the point that the majority of YAOI/BL is written by women. Not very gay is it?
While I do not pretend to say that all homosexually oriented manga is ignorant or reductionist of the homosexual experience, it maintains a stranglehold on the genre and has been largely misrepresented and misunderstood by mainstream western audiences who are ignorant of Japanese sexual culture, mostly by no fault of their own.
The most obvious example of the sort of prose that trivializes homosexuality for the enjoyment of a predominantly female audience is what is popularily referred to as "slash fiction" (because it is usually fan fiction dealing with two specific characters). The entire point of slash fiction is to justify a (sexual) relationship between two characters, which is where the YAOI acronym comes into play.
Of course when you mention a sexual relationship, the word pornography will inevidably pop into your head. YAOI/BL, as it is presented for the purpose of this discussion is not pornography. The point of pornography is inspiring or causing sexual stimulation in the viewer/reader by depicting sexual intercourse. The act of sexual intercourse is secondary at best in most YAOI/BL, and a popular theme in it is that it's not about sex, it's about the connection. Which is almost exactly what Shuichi says to Yuki after they have sex for the first time. Furthermore, there is usually an extended post coital scene which is devoted to discussion of their feelings in the stereotypical desire of the heterosexual female.
I should also point out that there is a significant amount of YAOI that is sexually explicit and draws on a demographic of women that are predominantly interested in the portrayal of the sex acts. In fact more than one Gaian of such persuasion have posted in no uncertain terms that the cultural significance of the genre is irrelevant to them and they are only interested in the sexual aspects. In this way, YAOI could be considered to be pornographic in some situations. The point that I am trying to stress is that it is not primarily pornographic, especially BL. YAOI has far more of a tendency and frequency to be sexually explicit. Boys Love means just that. Boys in love. YAOI is a sexual pun, which is reflective of the genre.
Now that we've established that the protagonists of contemporary YAOI/BL are not in fact authentically homosexual men, we now have to figure out what they are. The answer lies in a slang term used to describe the majority of YAOI/BL protagonists and even some straight anime/manga characters. The romanization for the term is bishounen which translates as beautiful boy. However, this term is meant to describe underage characters or individuals and is frequently misused to describe men. The proper equivalent is biseinen or "beautiful man".
Beautiful boy/man is an oxymoron of sorts, because men are usually not described as beautiful, it is more often used to describe women. True to his name, a bishounen/biseinen is a boy/man imbued with the characteristics of a woman in order to idealize him for the female audience. Not only does it present the reader with a "perfect" boy/man lacking the agression or mysogyny of typical males (again specifically those in Japanese literature), these feminine traits also make the idea of living vicariously through the character that much more attractive and possible. They are not so much male, as androgynous characters with male physical traits that serve the purpose of providing sexual equality to the relationship.
The biseinen rarely exists in gay themed manga aimed at gay men. In fact I have been informed of a specific instance in which an ugly character was favored for his skill at oral sex. This is a highly unlikely situation in YAOI/BL which greatly stresses the physical beauty of the characters.
So now you've read my whole big rant and you want to contribute to the discussion but don't know how. Here are some suggestions for questions to ask or answer as a way to guide your learning on the genre:
- How did my thread change your opinion of YAOI/BL? Do you think more or less of it now?
- How much of what I said did you already know?
- Do you feel that publishing YAOI/BL in a country that does not necessarily know of or understand the original context is damaging on that country's male homosexual population?
- Is liking YAOI/BL a valid reason for supporting same sex marriage?
- Should manga/anime importers such as Tokypop and Viz do more to explain the cultural context of YAOI/BL to the reader?
- If you are a female YAOI/BL reader, do you identify with any of the reasons that Japanese women write and read in this genre?
- If you are a male homosexual YAOI/BL reader do you feel that the genre's archtypal characters (biseinen) are potentially damaging to the image and understanding of the homosexual community? Why?
- If you are a male heterosexual YAOI/BL reader what the ******** are you doing reading YAOI/BL?! Just kidding.
Other cool threads
Aknowledgements
I would like to thank Celaeno for bringing this phenomenon to my attention after I had noticed some strange inconsistancies between western and eastern portrayals of homosexuality, and for providing me with invaluable information that I used in composing this thread.
Thanks to cynbaby for helping me update my terminology and gain a better understanding of the scene.
Thanks to Dragonstar13 and Amber Reflection for hanging around and asking the right questions.
Thanks to cynbaby for helping me update my terminology and gain a better understanding of the scene.
Thanks to Dragonstar13 and Amber Reflection for hanging around and asking the right questions.
Various Notes
- Do not quote any part of the first post in your responce, it is obnoxious and a waste of space.
- I am heterosexual.
- I am not homophobic or anti gay in any way, shape, or form.
- I am not anti-YAOI, I simply believe that it is being widely misinterpreted by western audiences.
- If you are interested in hearing more of my opinions on various subjects, I am currently doing a somewhat weekly blog in which I tackle various subjects and issues. It is accessable by clicking the link under my signature.
- The name of this account comes from the character Spider Jerusalem from the DC/Vertigo comic Transmetropolitan. He is a journalist and I strive to follow his example when posting under this name.
