linaloki
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- Posted: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:26:19 +0000
That's what I want. Logical proof that homosexuals aren't people. Because a lot of you people sure don't treat them like people.
Can anyone here prove to me that homosexuals shouldn't have rights? Are they not people too? I've heard Biblical and non-Biblical EXCUSES. Excuses are the shelters of liars and fools. I want some logical explaining. I mean, I'm Christian. That doesn't mean I have to select a certain group of people and slander them. I'm so sure all of you "homo-haters" already know this, but come on? What do you think Hitler did? Selected a group of people and slandered them. Also killed them. Not just Jews, though. It spread. Catholics. Roma. Homosexuals. Disabled people. Anyone that he didn't think was perfect for his Aryan race. Ironically, he wasn't even good enough. I saw an oldish show, Babylon 5. One of the episodes had a race that decided to build and program organic weaponry to find all "non-perfects" of their race and eradicate them. Eventually, their own weapons destroyed them. Lets face it. Diversity happens. The same goes to racists, sexists, etc. Are we not all homo sapiens? The way you came out when you were born shouldn't change that fact. I leave you, until people reply, with this:
First they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Catholic...
Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Communist...
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Jew...
Then they came for the homosexuals, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a homosexual...
Then they came for me... and there was no one left to say anything...
Silence is acceptance. Speak Loudly.
How long until they come for you?
**EDITS**
I'm going to start posting some Food for Thought sessions when they come to me. Here's the first edition.
12/27/04
Okay. This is Loki's Food for Thought session.
I was coming back home from my Grandma's today. It's a long, boring, 4 hour drive in a car where the transmission is slipping, so for the last half of the trip, we were pushing 50 tops on the interstate, lurching every little bit. To take my mind off things, I'd brought some CDs with me to listen to on the trip. I brought with me some of The Who's Greatest Hits, some Creedance Clearwater Revival, disk one of the Monkees anthology, and The Who's rock opera Tommy, with original cast. I decided to listen to Tommy. While I'd heard most of the songs, I'd never read the actual stuff between. I had the lyrics book with me at the time, so I opened it up and read along.
Tommy, for those of you that don't know, takes place in England, starting in World War Two. Mr. Walker is a soldier fighting in the last few years of the war, leaving behind his pregnant wife. His son, Tommy, is born without ever knowing him.
Mrs. Walker believes her husband to now be dead, so she invests in another lover. Tommy grows to call him father. Her love for her husband, however, is not gone. And as it turns out, Mr. Walker is NOT dead. He comes back home seeing his wife and her lover in an embrace. Mrs. Walker, sensing trouble, turns Tommy away. However, he is now facing a mirror, who's picture paints him this scene.
He see's his "father" slap his mother away, and then attack this stranger with a chair. The stranger pulls out a gun and shoots him.
This puts Tommy through a lot of trauma. Mrs. Walker and Mr. Walker are glad to be reunited, but they soon realize that Tommy saw the murder. They tell him repeatedly to never repeat the events of that night to anyone. The trauma of this and the fact that his "father's" murderer, his real father, got away with it, sends Tommy into a state of psychological shock. He, for all intents and purposes, becomes deaf, dumb, and blind. He cannot see, hear, or speak. His parents eventually give up and send him to his insane uncle, Uncle Ernie.
Uncle Ernie, to what I can tell, is clinically insane. When Tommy is brought to his house, he sexually offends Tommy for the sole reason that he can't scream out.
Later, Uncle Ernie leaves the house, and leaves Tommy's cousin Kevin with him. Here's Cousin Kevin's song.
Now tell me. Had he been born this way, would they have treated him in the same way? More than likely. So, born or chosen, he is treated horribly. Inhumanely. Dispicably. And for what? For what purpose? This madness holds no purpose. They did it because they could, and they could get away with it!
So. Homosexuals, whether born homosexuals (a.k.a. the real ones), or chosen homosexual, are treated horribly. Inhumanely. Dispicably. And for what? For what purpose? THIS MADNESS HOLDS NO PURPOSE!
3/6/05
Hey, guys! I'm back! I've noticed a lot of people using Leviticus as their Bible reference to smite homosexuality. But, you see, Leviticus doesn't work. And here's why.
So. There you have it. BIBLICAL proof that Leviticus is no longer in effect.
You may now continue with your lives.
8/5/06
This here is the first edit in a loooong time, methinks. Over a year. And this one won't be anything big and profound, just a couple of clerical clear-ups.
First: People have said, and still seem to be saying, that I misquoted the poem, that it was about Nazis, yadda yadda. I know I've mentioned this in the thread, but to put it somewhere everyone can read: It was NOT misquoted. I obtained the poem from an icon I saw on LiveJournal. Also, the pictures used in the icon suggest that this version was directed towards the American government. The groups mentioned in it also suggest that.
Second: Some people have mentioned that, in Acts 15:29, it mentions sexual immorality, which, to some people, includes homosexuality. This is not so. My research, as well as others', has led me to know that these verses refer to incest, beastiality, and lustful sex. The sexual relations mentioned in the book of Romans were inappropriate due to their lustful intentions. God does not condone lust or wanton fornication. In fact:
This says that sex without marraige commitment is immoral and wrong. This is the only definition of sexual immorality given in the New Testament, unless someone can prove otherwise?
But after that comes:
Well. Not only does that say that love comes from God, therefore making ANY loving relationship God approved, it also tells people to STOP HATING EACH OTHER. This includes homosexuals, strangely enough.
As I said, just a couple of clerical clear-ups.
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I've heard that this poem I put up is a slight misquote from someone... I've never seen the original poem, I just got this off someone's LiveJournal Icon... sweatdrop
Okay. At this point in "The Great Debate", I can see where people stand. I've had great help from many on this thread. I'll go back through the earlier parts to refresh my memory, but here's the current stats.
Major Debators:
Pro side:
Oldbies ->
linaloki - Of course! ^_^
Orna
Kameryn
Sinthe741
Khesed Arietovi
TrunkstheSlayer
Philosophical_Paradox
Pandora Box
Michiru Callisto Winner
Young to the cause ->
Dante San
Kougaiji12
SinfulGuillotine
Noire Nightraine
Ronin Hellbringer
Unsung Melody
Ghavrel
Phaedrus17
Torca - Gets a heart for swaying AznAlex slightly. heart
Kuja-King
Con side:
HackySackMaster - has left the discussion.
AznAlex - Many pages and still going. Changed his mind? Maybe. ^_^
heathen_scum - Left. I think.
XChA1NzX - Appologized for insults made to people. ^_^ A nice gesture. Also, has deleted his posts as a sign of withdrawl.
Torca - He's really on the pro side, but he wanted to be the devil's advocate and get mentioned as a conner. Even though his aeguments were stabbed by a fpoon.
People that I haven't quite figured out yet:
GamerXR72
Sea Salt
Mods that have posted!
Cloverina
trose
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A note to the regulars:
Okay. This will be put up on all of my threads, first post, and a new post. fubenkunai has been kind enough to clean up my threads of mess every time I've come to her. We must, in turn, follow the rules in respect and because they are the rules. Just because we believe them to be rude and unintelligent does not give the right for us to respond in kind. In fact, we must all remember to stay on topic, and to try not to spam. From now on, I will be much stricter. I don't want any of my threads being chatterboxed, guys. I still luv you all, but seriously. Let's try to cut it down, shall we?
Thanks, guys.
Can anyone here prove to me that homosexuals shouldn't have rights? Are they not people too? I've heard Biblical and non-Biblical EXCUSES. Excuses are the shelters of liars and fools. I want some logical explaining. I mean, I'm Christian. That doesn't mean I have to select a certain group of people and slander them. I'm so sure all of you "homo-haters" already know this, but come on? What do you think Hitler did? Selected a group of people and slandered them. Also killed them. Not just Jews, though. It spread. Catholics. Roma. Homosexuals. Disabled people. Anyone that he didn't think was perfect for his Aryan race. Ironically, he wasn't even good enough. I saw an oldish show, Babylon 5. One of the episodes had a race that decided to build and program organic weaponry to find all "non-perfects" of their race and eradicate them. Eventually, their own weapons destroyed them. Lets face it. Diversity happens. The same goes to racists, sexists, etc. Are we not all homo sapiens? The way you came out when you were born shouldn't change that fact. I leave you, until people reply, with this:
First they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Catholic...
Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Communist...
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Jew...
Then they came for the homosexuals, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a homosexual...
Then they came for me... and there was no one left to say anything...
Silence is acceptance. Speak Loudly.
How long until they come for you?
**EDITS**
I'm going to start posting some Food for Thought sessions when they come to me. Here's the first edition.
12/27/04
Okay. This is Loki's Food for Thought session.
I was coming back home from my Grandma's today. It's a long, boring, 4 hour drive in a car where the transmission is slipping, so for the last half of the trip, we were pushing 50 tops on the interstate, lurching every little bit. To take my mind off things, I'd brought some CDs with me to listen to on the trip. I brought with me some of The Who's Greatest Hits, some Creedance Clearwater Revival, disk one of the Monkees anthology, and The Who's rock opera Tommy, with original cast. I decided to listen to Tommy. While I'd heard most of the songs, I'd never read the actual stuff between. I had the lyrics book with me at the time, so I opened it up and read along.
Tommy, for those of you that don't know, takes place in England, starting in World War Two. Mr. Walker is a soldier fighting in the last few years of the war, leaving behind his pregnant wife. His son, Tommy, is born without ever knowing him.
Mrs. Walker believes her husband to now be dead, so she invests in another lover. Tommy grows to call him father. Her love for her husband, however, is not gone. And as it turns out, Mr. Walker is NOT dead. He comes back home seeing his wife and her lover in an embrace. Mrs. Walker, sensing trouble, turns Tommy away. However, he is now facing a mirror, who's picture paints him this scene.
He see's his "father" slap his mother away, and then attack this stranger with a chair. The stranger pulls out a gun and shoots him.
This puts Tommy through a lot of trauma. Mrs. Walker and Mr. Walker are glad to be reunited, but they soon realize that Tommy saw the murder. They tell him repeatedly to never repeat the events of that night to anyone. The trauma of this and the fact that his "father's" murderer, his real father, got away with it, sends Tommy into a state of psychological shock. He, for all intents and purposes, becomes deaf, dumb, and blind. He cannot see, hear, or speak. His parents eventually give up and send him to his insane uncle, Uncle Ernie.
Uncle Ernie, to what I can tell, is clinically insane. When Tommy is brought to his house, he sexually offends Tommy for the sole reason that he can't scream out.
Uncle Ernie
I'm your wicked Uncle Ernie
I'm glad you won't see or hear me
As I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
Your mother left me here to mind you
Now I'm doing what I want to
Fiddling about
Fiddling about
Fiddle about!
Down with the bedclothes
Up with the nightshirt!
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
You won't shout as I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
Fiddle, fiddle, fiddle.
I'm glad you won't see or hear me
As I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
Your mother left me here to mind you
Now I'm doing what I want to
Fiddling about
Fiddling about
Fiddle about!
Down with the bedclothes
Up with the nightshirt!
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
You won't shout as I fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about
Fiddle about !
Fiddle, fiddle, fiddle.
Later, Uncle Ernie leaves the house, and leaves Tommy's cousin Kevin with him. Here's Cousin Kevin's song.
Cousin Kevin
We're on our own, cousin,
All alone, cousin.
Let's think of a game to play
Now the grown-ups have all gone away.
You won't be much fun
Being blind, deaf and dumb.
But I've no-one to play with today.
Do you know how to play hide-and-seek?
To find me it would take you a week,
But tied to that chair
You won't go anywhere
There's a lot I can do with a freak.
How would you feel if I
Turned on the bath,
Ducked your head under
And started to laugh?
What would you do if I shut you outside,
To stand in the rain
And catch cold so you died?
I'm the school bully!
The classroom cheat.
The nastiesy playfriend
You ever could meet.
I'll stick pins in your fingers
And tread on your feet...
Maybe a cigarette burn on your arm
Would change your expression
To one of alarm.
I'll drag you round by a lock of your hair
Or give you a push
At the top of the stairs...
I'm the school bully!
The classroom cheat.
The nastiesy playfriend
You ever could meet.
I'll put glass in your dinner
And spikes in your seat...
All alone, cousin.
Let's think of a game to play
Now the grown-ups have all gone away.
You won't be much fun
Being blind, deaf and dumb.
But I've no-one to play with today.
Do you know how to play hide-and-seek?
To find me it would take you a week,
But tied to that chair
You won't go anywhere
There's a lot I can do with a freak.
How would you feel if I
Turned on the bath,
Ducked your head under
And started to laugh?
What would you do if I shut you outside,
To stand in the rain
And catch cold so you died?
I'm the school bully!
The classroom cheat.
The nastiesy playfriend
You ever could meet.
I'll stick pins in your fingers
And tread on your feet...
Maybe a cigarette burn on your arm
Would change your expression
To one of alarm.
I'll drag you round by a lock of your hair
Or give you a push
At the top of the stairs...
I'm the school bully!
The classroom cheat.
The nastiesy playfriend
You ever could meet.
I'll put glass in your dinner
And spikes in your seat...
Now tell me. Had he been born this way, would they have treated him in the same way? More than likely. So, born or chosen, he is treated horribly. Inhumanely. Dispicably. And for what? For what purpose? This madness holds no purpose. They did it because they could, and they could get away with it!
So. Homosexuals, whether born homosexuals (a.k.a. the real ones), or chosen homosexual, are treated horribly. Inhumanely. Dispicably. And for what? For what purpose? THIS MADNESS HOLDS NO PURPOSE!
3/6/05
Hey, guys! I'm back! I've noticed a lot of people using Leviticus as their Bible reference to smite homosexuality. But, you see, Leviticus doesn't work. And here's why.
linaloki
On the topic of Levitican Law:
So. Those that shave are sinning.
So. Those that crop in cycles, wear polyester cotton mixes, or breed mules are sinning.
So. Semen is "unclean". Women on periods must be cast out.
So. You can't eat lobster or crawfish. Or pork.
So why just pick at the verses against homosexuals? Oh, BTW. Christians do not have to follow Levitican Law.
Suddenly the animals aren't unclean. Oh, and here.
Tada!
So. Where's your Biblical proof now?
Leviticus 19:27, NIV
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
So. Those that shave are sinning.
Leviticus 19:19, NIV
Keep my decrees.
Do not mate different kinds of animals.
Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Do not mate different kinds of animals.
Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
So. Those that crop in cycles, wear polyester cotton mixes, or breed mules are sinning.
Leviticus 15, NIV
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any man has a bodily discharge, the discharge is unclean. 3 Whether it continues flowing from his body or is blocked, it will make him unclean. This is how his discharge will bring about uncleanness:
4 " 'Any bed the man with a discharge lies on will be unclean, and anything he sits on will be unclean. 5 Anyone who touches his bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 6 Whoever sits on anything that the man with a discharge sat on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
7 " 'Whoever touches the man who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
8 " 'If the man with the discharge spits on someone who is clean, that person must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
9 " 'Everything the man sits on when riding will be unclean, 10 and whoever touches any of the things that were under him will be unclean till evening; whoever picks up those things must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
11 " 'Anyone the man with a discharge touches without rinsing his hands with water must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
12 " 'A clay pot that the man touches must be broken, and any wooden article is to be rinsed with water.
13 " 'When a man is cleansed from his discharge, he is to count off seven days for his ceremonial cleansing; he must wash his clothes and bathe himself with fresh water, and he will be clean. 14 On the eighth day he must take two doves or two young pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and give them to the priest. 15 The priest is to sacrifice them, the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement before the LORD for the man because of his discharge.
16 " 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
25 " 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
28 " 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
31 " 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.' "
32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.
4 " 'Any bed the man with a discharge lies on will be unclean, and anything he sits on will be unclean. 5 Anyone who touches his bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 6 Whoever sits on anything that the man with a discharge sat on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
7 " 'Whoever touches the man who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
8 " 'If the man with the discharge spits on someone who is clean, that person must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
9 " 'Everything the man sits on when riding will be unclean, 10 and whoever touches any of the things that were under him will be unclean till evening; whoever picks up those things must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
11 " 'Anyone the man with a discharge touches without rinsing his hands with water must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
12 " 'A clay pot that the man touches must be broken, and any wooden article is to be rinsed with water.
13 " 'When a man is cleansed from his discharge, he is to count off seven days for his ceremonial cleansing; he must wash his clothes and bathe himself with fresh water, and he will be clean. 14 On the eighth day he must take two doves or two young pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and give them to the priest. 15 The priest is to sacrifice them, the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement before the LORD for the man because of his discharge.
16 " 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
25 " 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
28 " 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
31 " 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, which is among them.' "
32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.
So. Semen is "unclean". Women on periods must be cast out.
Leviticus 11, NIV
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.
4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.
9 " 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales-whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water-you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.
13 " 'These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. 21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.
24 " 'You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.
26 " 'Every animal that has a split hoof not completely divided or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. 27 Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 28 Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. They are unclean for you.
29 " 'Of the animals that move about on the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. 32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. 33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. 34 Any food that could be eaten but has water on it from such a pot is unclean, and any liquid that could be drunk from it is unclean. 35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. 36 A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. 37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. 38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.
39 " 'If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches the carcass will be unclean till evening. 40 Anyone who eats some of the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.
41 " 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. 42 You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable. 43 Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. 44 I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. 45 I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.
46 " 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about on the ground. 47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.' "
4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.
9 " 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales-whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water-you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.
13 " 'These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. 21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. 22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. 23 But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.
24 " 'You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.
26 " 'Every animal that has a split hoof not completely divided or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. 27 Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. 28 Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. They are unclean for you.
29 " 'Of the animals that move about on the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, 30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. 32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. 33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. 34 Any food that could be eaten but has water on it from such a pot is unclean, and any liquid that could be drunk from it is unclean. 35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. 36 A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. 37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. 38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.
39 " 'If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches the carcass will be unclean till evening. 40 Anyone who eats some of the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.
41 " 'Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten. 42 You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable. 43 Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. 44 I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves about on the ground. 45 I am the LORD who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.
46 " 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about on the ground. 47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.' "
So. You can't eat lobster or crawfish. Or pork.
So why just pick at the verses against homosexuals? Oh, BTW. Christians do not have to follow Levitican Law.
Acts 10:10-16, NIV
10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of fourfooted animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.�?
14“Surely not, Lord!�? Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.�?
15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.�?
16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
14“Surely not, Lord!�? Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.�?
15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.�?
16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
Suddenly the animals aren't unclean. Oh, and here.
Acts 15:24-29, NIV
24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul– 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Tada!
So. Where's your Biblical proof now?
So. There you have it. BIBLICAL proof that Leviticus is no longer in effect.
You may now continue with your lives.
8/5/06
This here is the first edit in a loooong time, methinks. Over a year. And this one won't be anything big and profound, just a couple of clerical clear-ups.
First: People have said, and still seem to be saying, that I misquoted the poem, that it was about Nazis, yadda yadda. I know I've mentioned this in the thread, but to put it somewhere everyone can read: It was NOT misquoted. I obtained the poem from an icon I saw on LiveJournal. Also, the pictures used in the icon suggest that this version was directed towards the American government. The groups mentioned in it also suggest that.
Second: Some people have mentioned that, in Acts 15:29, it mentions sexual immorality, which, to some people, includes homosexuality. This is not so. My research, as well as others', has led me to know that these verses refer to incest, beastiality, and lustful sex. The sexual relations mentioned in the book of Romans were inappropriate due to their lustful intentions. God does not condone lust or wanton fornication. In fact:
1 Corinthians 6:12-18, NIV
"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
This says that sex without marraige commitment is immoral and wrong. This is the only definition of sexual immorality given in the New Testament, unless someone can prove otherwise?
But after that comes:
1 John 4:7-12, NIV
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
Well. Not only does that say that love comes from God, therefore making ANY loving relationship God approved, it also tells people to STOP HATING EACH OTHER. This includes homosexuals, strangely enough.
As I said, just a couple of clerical clear-ups.
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I've heard that this poem I put up is a slight misquote from someone... I've never seen the original poem, I just got this off someone's LiveJournal Icon... sweatdrop
Okay. At this point in "The Great Debate", I can see where people stand. I've had great help from many on this thread. I'll go back through the earlier parts to refresh my memory, but here's the current stats.
Major Debators:
Pro side:
Oldbies ->
linaloki - Of course! ^_^
Orna
Kameryn
Sinthe741
Khesed Arietovi
TrunkstheSlayer
Philosophical_Paradox
Pandora Box
Michiru Callisto Winner
Young to the cause ->
Dante San
Kougaiji12
SinfulGuillotine
Noire Nightraine
Ronin Hellbringer
Unsung Melody
Ghavrel
Phaedrus17
Torca - Gets a heart for swaying AznAlex slightly. heart
Kuja-King
Con side:
HackySackMaster - has left the discussion.
AznAlex - Many pages and still going. Changed his mind? Maybe. ^_^
heathen_scum - Left. I think.
XChA1NzX - Appologized for insults made to people. ^_^ A nice gesture. Also, has deleted his posts as a sign of withdrawl.
Torca - He's really on the pro side, but he wanted to be the devil's advocate and get mentioned as a conner. Even though his aeguments were stabbed by a fpoon.
People that I haven't quite figured out yet:
GamerXR72
Sea Salt
Mods that have posted!
Cloverina
trose
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fubenkunai
As a note to the "thread regulars," flaming someone like that or tossing out insults left and right is only going to produce warnings and make me delete more posts. I'll warn 'em, but as it's your thread, I thought it only fair to give you a heads-up that they'll be reined in if need be.
A note to the regulars:
Okay. This will be put up on all of my threads, first post, and a new post. fubenkunai has been kind enough to clean up my threads of mess every time I've come to her. We must, in turn, follow the rules in respect and because they are the rules. Just because we believe them to be rude and unintelligent does not give the right for us to respond in kind. In fact, we must all remember to stay on topic, and to try not to spam. From now on, I will be much stricter. I don't want any of my threads being chatterboxed, guys. I still luv you all, but seriously. Let's try to cut it down, shall we?
Thanks, guys.
