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I am of the belief that anarchy is the ideal form of government in this day and age. For those of you who are unsure, allow me to describe anarchy.

Anarchy, in my eyes, is a state of being in which there is no official governing body. However, this does not mean that there is a state of disorder. People are free to make their own decisions and live by their own rules.
Which will, inevitably, result in some guy hiring a bunch of big guys to take money/property/wealth/life/liberty from other people, establish himself as some sort of ruler, and start the end that everyone saw coming to the short-lived reign of anarchy.

There is a reason that humans naturally organized themselves into governments.
To my understanding, anarchy is not so much a lack of organization than it is a lack of hierarchy.
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To my understanding, anarchy is not so much a lack of organization than it is a lack of hierarchy.


That's the point I'm trying to make! A lack of hierarchy means that everyone is equal and the people can govern themself as an individual.
Kelrothu
Which will, inevitably, result in some guy hiring a bunch of big guys to take money/property/wealth/life/liberty from other people, establish himself as some sort of ruler, and start the end that everyone saw coming to the short-lived reign of anarchy.

There is a reason that humans naturally organized themselves into governments.


Wait. isn't that exactly what governments do?

Bunch of big guys: Check.
Taking money (taxes): Check.
Taking property (eminent domain): Check.
Taking wealth (estate tax): Check.
Taking life (Death penalty, SWAT teams, no-knock raids): Check.
Taking liberty (jail for non-violent "crimes" wink : Check.

Seems to be that in order to maintain anarchy as a preferred state enough people must value their personal liberty and self-government to spot politicians and deny them recognition or power.

Sadly, most humans all too gladly give up control of their lives to tyrants and despots of all stripes. Because it's easier, I guess.
People aren't nice. Do you really think everybody will respect common sense?
Anarchy means no government, no laws, no limit to freedom. That means I can do what I want.. like killing people, rubbing everything. And other people can do that to me.
Maybe it can work for little community but not for a country.
maikichelorraine
People aren't nice. Do you really think everybody will respect common sense?


Well, let's explore that.

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Anarchy means no government, no laws, no limit to freedom.


It means no one else's government, laws, or artificial limits to freedom. You can, of course, govern yourself, make your own laws, and limit your own actions.

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That means I can do what I want.. like killing people, rubbing everything. And other people can do that to me.


Do you want to kill people? Is your bloodlust only stopped by some words on paper that you've probably never even seen? Or do you have internal, moral objections to killing people and robbing everything?

Other people can kill and rob you today, right now and it would take the police 8 minutes to arrive. Government does not stop crime and it cannot protect you from crime. You are responsible for your own security.


So let's say you believe me, and you get serious about your personal safety. If you are capable and willing to defend your self from someone who would rob, assault or murder you, and you refuse to rob, assault or murder other people... do you really need twenty thousand laws to tell you how to live?

Are you incapable or making moral decision for yourself?

Now, there are people out there who are criminal and want to rob, murder and assault people. But if you, and your friends are capable of defending yourselves, how successful do you think those criminals will be? Do dead criminals commit more crimes?
scarmig
maikichelorraine
People aren't nice. Do you really think everybody will respect common sense?


Well, let's explore that.

Quote:

Anarchy means no government, no laws, no limit to freedom.


It means no one else's government, laws, or artificial limits to freedom. You can, of course, govern yourself, make your own laws, and limit your own actions.

Quote:

That means I can do what I want.. like killing people, rubbing everything. And other people can do that to me.


Do you want to kill people? Is your bloodlust only stopped by some words on paper that you've probably never even seen? Or do you have internal, moral objections to killing people and robbing everything?

Other people can kill and rob you today, right now and it would take the police 8 minutes to arrive. Government does not stop crime and it cannot protect you from crime. You are responsible for your own security.


So let's say you believe me, and you get serious about your personal safety. If you are capable and willing to defend your self from someone who would rob, assault or murder you, and you refuse to rob, assault or murder other people... do you really need twenty thousand laws to tell you how to live?

Are you incapable or making moral decision for yourself?

Now, there are people out there who are criminal and want to rob, murder and assault people. But if you, and your friends are capable of defending yourselves, how successful do you think those criminals will be? Do dead criminals commit more crimes?


Sorry to say that, but you should have lived during the Middle Age.
What you told me in fact is to get armed and got revenge if I had problems.
As you say I can be killed now. Maybe the government can't do anything for me, but police can arrest my murderer, and some judge will condamn him. And it can make laws about guns or things like that...
Without any laws who will do the job? My family, or my friends for revenge? And if they manage to do that, what will happen after that?

Dead criminals are not dangerous anymore. But if some policemen did an investigation about them and arrested them before they attack me?
Do you prefer to kill people to suppress problems?

And don't worry for me, I didn't learned the whole civil code to be a good girl and respect all the laws.
I don't like my government and I'm pretty worried about it. I just don't think anarchy is the answer.
Kaz-Balan
TheUndeadQueen
I am of the belief that anarchy is the ideal form of government in this day and age. For those of you who are unsure, allow me to describe anarchy.

Anarchy, in my eyes, is a state of being in which there is no official governing body. However, this does not mean that there is a state of disorder. People are free to make their own decisions and live by their own rules.

I know anarchism will save our future.
Such a political system is based first on the absence of ( need of ) any hierarchy,
which can express itself by favouring sharing processes,
self-management in any activity,
with commonly accepted ( because simple and clear ) rules
that are established by and for the informed and concerned people.

It will save our future from the coming awfully generalized bureaucracy.

That's how I foresee it as far, but my bf adds this :
. Anarchism ought to come from both real democracy and education,
but it might happen from other situations or events
. Money can be tolerated, but individual wealth or misery should be limited
. Religion can be tolerated, but not its abuses and sects, and it's personal
. Anarchism as a political system is being discussed since the end of the 19th century
. Anarchism may work ( have a look at Spain in 1936-37 ), which explains why
so many authoritarian regimes still have it get forgotten or despised...

Freedom is responsibility.
That's why most people fear it.


Kisses!


Couldn't have said it better. Anarchism, or libertarian socialism, is about finding a way to organize society without hierarchies.
This means not disorder, but direct democracy and selfmanagement, an economy just enough to give everybody the same bargaining power in decisions affecting their lives, and tolerance for a plurality of worldviews, while not tolerating intolerant views.
Which means quite a lot of things would have to be brought into a power equlibrium, so I think, while anarchy in this sense would be the best society, it is rather unlikely to ever reach this perfect equilibrium so that all power is shared equally.
So I believe anarchy is a goal you can move towards and come close to, but not reach.
maikichelorraine


Sorry to say that, but you should have lived during the Middle Age.
What you told me in fact is to get armed and got revenge if I had problems.



That is not what I said. What I said is that you are responsible for your own security. Whether or not that means being armed is up to you. Revenge is up to you.

Both of those are true even with government.

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As you say I can be killed now. Maybe the government can't do anything for me, but police can arrest my murderer, and some judge will condamn him.


So what you are saying is that you would rather be dead with a government than alive without.

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And it can make laws about guns or things like that...
Without any laws who will do the job? My family, or my friends for revenge? And if they manage to do that, what will happen after that?


If you are capable of defending yourself, there is no job to do. Prevention is better than reaction. Be aware, be trained, be capable and you will *live*. You won't be a target. Criminals won't attack you because criminals like easy targets and trained, aware, capable people are *not* easy targets.

It almost sounds like you want to be victim.

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Dead criminals are not dangerous anymore. But if some policemen did an investigation about them and arrested them before they attack me?
Do you prefer to kill people to suppress problems?


If it is their first time to attack someone, what would the police investigate? But if you are prepared to defend yourself, his first time attacking someone could be his last time.

You could stop the crime spree before it ever started, simply by defending yourself.

And yes, I have no problem with people killing people who attack them, if they feel it is necessary. People have the right to defend themselves from attack by any means necessary, including lethal force, in my opinion.

That's not medieval. That's life all over the world, throughout all history.

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And don't worry for me, I didn't learned the whole civil code to be a good girl and respect all the laws.
I don't like my government and I'm pretty worried about it. I just don't think anarchy is the answer.


No, anarchy is not the answer. Personal responsibility is. Peaceful, non-violent anarchy is the result of a critical mass of people who believe in personal responsibility.
scarmig
maikichelorraine


Sorry to say that, but you should have lived during the Middle Age.
What you told me in fact is to get armed and got revenge if I had problems.



That is not what I said. What I said is that you are responsible for your own security. Whether or not that means being armed is up to you. Revenge is up to you.

Both of those are true even with government.

Quote:

As you say I can be killed now. Maybe the government can't do anything for me, but police can arrest my murderer, and some judge will condamn him.


So what you are saying is that you would rather be dead with a government than alive without.

Quote:

And it can make laws about guns or things like that...
Without any laws who will do the job? My family, or my friends for revenge? And if they manage to do that, what will happen after that?


If you are capable of defending yourself, there is no job to do. Prevention is better than reaction. Be aware, be trained, be capable and you will *live*. You won't be a target. Criminals won't attack you because criminals like easy targets and trained, aware, capable people are *not* easy targets.

It almost sounds like you want to be victim.

Quote:
Dead criminals are not dangerous anymore. But if some policemen did an investigation about them and arrested them before they attack me?
Do you prefer to kill people to suppress problems?


If it is their first time to attack someone, what would the police investigate? But if you are prepared to defend yourself, his first time attacking someone could be his last time.

You could stop the crime spree before it ever started, simply by defending yourself.

And yes, I have no problem with people killing people who attack them, if they feel it is necessary. People have the right to defend themselves from attack by any means necessary, including lethal force, in my opinion.

That's not medieval. That's life all over the world, throughout all history.

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And don't worry for me, I didn't learned the whole civil code to be a good girl and respect all the laws.
I don't like my government and I'm pretty worried about it. I just don't think anarchy is the answer.


No, anarchy is not the answer. Personal responsibility is. Peaceful, non-violent anarchy is the result of a critical mass of people who believe in personal responsibility.


You are basically arguing in favour of "might makes right", which would, in my eyes, rather lead towards the government of the strongest group rather than anti-authoritarianism.

Shy Werewolf

Heh, I like the way Bakunin puts it, "I am truly free only when all human beings, men and women, are equally free. The freedom of other men, far from negating or limiting my freedom, is, on the contrary, its necessary premise and confirmation."

While, yes, personal responsibility is important, it's also necessary to understand that defending the freedom of others is equally important. Which is why anarchism cannot be entirely individualistic, but interdependent.

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Ray Tski
You are basically arguing in favour of "might makes right", which would, in my eyes, rather lead towards the government of the strongest group rather than anti-authoritarianism.


Sounds more like he's saying actions have consequences, regardless of whether there's a government or not.
Ray Tski
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You are basically arguing in favour of "might makes right", which would, in my eyes, rather lead towards the government of the strongest group rather than anti-authoritarianism.


No, I'm not.

Peaceful anarchy requires a critical mass of people that believe in two things:

Personal responsibility
Personal morality.

"Might makes right" occurs when people have ability, but not morality or responsibility. In anarchy, and in government as well, people who are moral and responsible stand up and limit those who are not by their own actions.

Government, however, gives those who are irresponsible and immoral a method of magnifying their power beyond the capabilities of moral, responsible people.

Government is actually the true result of a "might makes right" mentality.

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