monoo
Petition Info
This is not a thread to discuss the fact that many foreign users are experiencing exclusion, there are a lot of these threads already so if you want to discuss this is not the right place. THIS IS A PETITION NOT A DISCUSSION THREAD!
Also - DO NOT PM ME with your arguments against this petition. I've heard them all. I will ignore you and block you. And do not PM me asking me to add you and/or your friends to the petition, since that is not a valid way of signing. exclaim EACH AND EVERY ONE NEEDS TO SIGN THEMSELVES, simply by posting "I sign" in here! exclaim Thank you.
Simplyfied
monoo
Simplyfied
Fact is, the notice in the first post was created, because there have been a hell lot of threads discussing this topic in Site Feedback.
We have read the arguments given, but they lack the realization of this: Gaia chooses its sponsors. The sponsor does not choose Gaia.
Seriously, it's not about "we don't want to hear bad things" it's about "shut the hell up, when you don't have anything to say that hasn't been said a million times and that hasn't got anything to do with the topic".
All we get in here as Anti-statements is "OMG you n00bs itsa matter of teh law, so shut teh hell up!!!111oneoneelevn".
Also she is not breaking the rules by saying she doesn't want unneeded discussion in here. It's not like she can actually stop you from discussing - as you have obviously noticed by posting.
heart
Of course you may quote that eek
^_^
Also, this petition needs to be heard.
____________________________________________
Are you feeling uneased by Gaia's choice to team up with a sponsor that deliberately excludes a big portion of Gaia's users?
(Funimation is excluding all non-Americans and Canadians from their quests here on Gaia.)
Then all you need to do is either just post your username in here, or you can just post "I sign". That simple. By doing that you show that you are not ok with this kind of treatment, and that we demand an official excuse. And that we do not wish to see this repeated.
Please help us stay on top! 3nodding
From now on I will add all posts that say "sings", "I sing" or similiar, I will consider them typos.
_________________________________________
Simplyfied
To spare you all the work of having to read through all pages of the thread, we will list the most common answers to this petition here.
Please note that not everyone who said something for or against our cause will be quoted here, we still saw your post, it's just that what you said has been said before. (This means, the first person to have posted an argument will be quoted - or the one who was able to stay civil whilst posting.)
If you're not going to say anything new and don't wish to sign, please leave. As you see, we've heard your argument.
There have been four types of reactions to this petition:
First: We have been insulted by people who did not understand what we petition for...
But insults shall not be quoted here, you'll have to read through the pages to read those rolleyes
Second: People have argumented - more or less rationally and politely - against our cause:
The Sunday Edition
Quote:
ITS THE SPONSOR'S CHOICE NOT GAIA'S.
This is something we have read rather often.
If you have the same oppinion, please consider this: Gaia chooses its sponsors.
They are not brutally forced into accepting a sponsorship.
Ergo: Even though the sponsor decides to exclude people, Gaia accepts that by accepting the sponsorship.
shazzer
Quote:
You know that a sponsorship quest that includes everyone would be impossible, right?
Wrong. Except for the Tsubasa Quest every quest on Gaia has been available for every user.
Gallia
Quote:
I've got an official excuse. Maybe the other sponsors were asking for even more limited access range? It's not like that's never happened before(if only not with this site). And ya know what they end up doing with all that sponsored loot? They upgrade the servers, expand the site, and make everything here just a little cooler and smoother for everyone. Ever buy a server and then have it running for a year straight? Even if the server doesn't kill you, I'm sure the electric bill for it and the AC so it doesn't explode will. Thinking about the Gigabytes, if not Terrabytes, this site must need to keep running smoothly... X.X
So yeah, maybe only some people got to get the quest it's self, just petition for more quests with cool stuff. I figure it can't just have been they paid the most, they probably had the widest range as well.
So yeah, maybe only some people got to get the quest it's self, just petition for more quests with cool stuff. I figure it can't just have been they paid the most, they probably had the widest range as well.
We consider the possibility. But we don't know for sure. As it is, Lanzer himself states in his working journal that most money is made via Monthly Collectibles and - as stated above - there are a lot of other Quests available for everyone.
So this is very improbable.
20 shades of Crazy
Quote:
"ToS section 10"
We are allowed to access the items themselves. Also, the contents themselves are not de facto illegal in other countries just because nobody owns the copyrights for them around there. And there are countries in which companies have bought the copyrights for Tsubasa.
ToS section 10 is about the laws in the countries that we are accessing Gaia from.
As far as I know there are very few countries in which Tsubasa has been prohibited. (Well, I don't know any country actually, in which you may not under any circumstances watch that Anime.)
Chocolate Chibi
So what?
Even in games discrimination stays what it is.
Jynxe Von Helson
This too, has been said more than once. It's rude and only shows that you're greedy. Don't post anything that's even comparable. Just don't.
Mephil
That we have basically no rights concerning Gaia doesn't mean we're not allowed to critisize.
And if all the users excluded and those who think that the exclusion was unfair just left Gaia they'd have quite a problem paying their next bills.
Gaia is still a userbased community. Without their users, they are not much, really.
Third: People have argumented for our cause:
Garland Green
shulie
-Choukyuu Bushin Hakken-
Howndoo
fubenkunai (moderator!)
Lyrically Adagio
monoo
surakio
monoo
Kabinx23
Quote:
Prohibited Uses.
Access to the Materials from territories where their contents are illegal is prohibited. Those who choose to access Gaia Online from locations outside of the United States do so at their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with all local rules including, without limitation, rules about the internet, data, email, or privacy. You agree to comply with all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside. Members visiting Gaia Online from countries outside of the United States must agree to abide by all local rules regarding online conduct and acceptable content.
If you joined this website, you agreed this was okay. Therefore, you really have no right to petition about it going away.
Access to the Materials from territories where their contents are illegal is prohibited. Those who choose to access Gaia Online from locations outside of the United States do so at their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with all local rules including, without limitation, rules about the internet, data, email, or privacy. You agree to comply with all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside. Members visiting Gaia Online from countries outside of the United States must agree to abide by all local rules regarding online conduct and acceptable content.
If you joined this website, you agreed this was okay. Therefore, you really have no right to petition about it going away.
We are allowed to access the items themselves. Also, the contents themselves are not de facto illegal in other countries just because nobody owns the copyrights for them around there. And there are countries in which companies have bought the copyrights for Tsubasa.
ToS section 10 is about the laws in the countries that we are accessing Gaia from.
As far as I know there are very few countries in which Tsubasa has been prohibited. (Well, I don't know any country actually, in which you may not under any circumstances watch that Anime.)
Chocolate Chibi
Quote:
F.Y.I. THIS IS JUST A GAME! GET OVER IT IF YOU HAVE TO!
So what?
Even in games discrimination stays what it is.
Jynxe Von Helson
Quote:
In all honesty I can't sign this.
There's a lot things you haven't even considered
While I would like to include all the users,I'm a vendor, and if everyone has the item then how the heck am I supposed to rip people off for it.Also, Gaia isn't as big as you think they would have definite problems with all those users trying to do the quest at once,and lo and behold they don't have the bandwidth for that right now,heck some of them don't even get paid; just like your 'all powerful' mod support.Lastly allow me to point my finger at a nasty little situation called the Two Percent tax,this ties in with my vending, I want to make my money easily and with everyone having that item, I cant sell but for maybe two gold,and what worsens it is the Two percent tax that gets deducted out of that.Maybe you could try an convince me better like people in the GCD do with...Oh I don't know...A MORE DESCRIPTIVE REASON.Sorry but that's just the way it is.
There's a lot things you haven't even considered
While I would like to include all the users,I'm a vendor, and if everyone has the item then how the heck am I supposed to rip people off for it.Also, Gaia isn't as big as you think they would have definite problems with all those users trying to do the quest at once,and lo and behold they don't have the bandwidth for that right now,heck some of them don't even get paid; just like your 'all powerful' mod support.Lastly allow me to point my finger at a nasty little situation called the Two Percent tax,this ties in with my vending, I want to make my money easily and with everyone having that item, I cant sell but for maybe two gold,and what worsens it is the Two percent tax that gets deducted out of that.Maybe you could try an convince me better like people in the GCD do with...Oh I don't know...A MORE DESCRIPTIVE REASON.Sorry but that's just the way it is.
This too, has been said more than once. It's rude and only shows that you're greedy. Don't post anything that's even comparable. Just don't.
Mephil
Quote:
Gaia is a free service, you don't have any right to whine if you don't pay for it.
Your may think you have "rights" as a gaian user.
NEWS FLASH
Free service = You don't have any rights. None whatsoever.
Your may think you have "rights" as a gaian user.
NEWS FLASH
Free service = You don't have any rights. None whatsoever.
That we have basically no rights concerning Gaia doesn't mean we're not allowed to critisize.
And if all the users excluded and those who think that the exclusion was unfair just left Gaia they'd have quite a problem paying their next bills.
Gaia is still a userbased community. Without their users, they are not much, really.
Third: People have argumented for our cause:
Garland Green
Quote:
„Pick better sponsors - get more income with establishing a happier userbase. A happier userbase means, more
donations. =] Gaia needs loyalty, and you don't get that with treating a large procentage of your usebase like they don't exist. Anyway, like it has been said, this is not the place for a discussion. „
donations. =] Gaia needs loyalty, and you don't get that with treating a large procentage of your usebase like they don't exist. Anyway, like it has been said, this is not the place for a discussion. „
shulie
Quote:
„Then they shouldn't have agreed on the sponsorship. Lanzer said it himself. There are several sponsorships they could've choosed from. Gaia is an internationally worldwide site. It is their fault.„
-Choukyuu Bushin Hakken-
Quote:
„As for this whole thing, I find it especially ridiculous. What's with people from other countries being unable to do a quest? To keep them fromg ettingthe item for free? I see. It's because the excluded countries don't fall within the advertising areas controlled by the sponsor, so advertising these products to those people would be pointless, ergo, the viral marketing must be spared. No use getting international interest in a product up if they can't buy it after all. Aside from that though, the items can still be sold or traded between users, so a question is raised. Is it really about the item? No, not at all.
It's about money. The quest is only available to prime marketing audiences because they want to drive up interest in the product and bolster sales, and allowing non-target audiences to participate will only muddle the end result as far as they're concerned. People from other countries can still get the product, but the money spent won't go to the company, and that's bad for them. It's clear then that the sponsor is simply using Gaia as a profit machine, and this end was accepted by Gaia without question.
I sign. „
It's about money. The quest is only available to prime marketing audiences because they want to drive up interest in the product and bolster sales, and allowing non-target audiences to participate will only muddle the end result as far as they're concerned. People from other countries can still get the product, but the money spent won't go to the company, and that's bad for them. It's clear then that the sponsor is simply using Gaia as a profit machine, and this end was accepted by Gaia without question.
I sign. „
Howndoo
Quote:
„-sign-
I understand there are legal reasons for excluding a vast amount of people, and for all I know accepting this sponsorship might have been the best choice to make. I don't know how much money gaia is getting from donations, or how much it costs to run the site.
But that's just it, I don't know.
All I wanted was an announcement to explain why the choice was made, and possibly an apology.
It would still be unfair, but I wouldn't feel as excluded, and alot fewer people would complain about it.
I, and a lot of other people were left out of a social event, and being told to stop bitching by users who don't understand why I'm upset at all is not how I wanted to find out why. „
I understand there are legal reasons for excluding a vast amount of people, and for all I know accepting this sponsorship might have been the best choice to make. I don't know how much money gaia is getting from donations, or how much it costs to run the site.
But that's just it, I don't know.
All I wanted was an announcement to explain why the choice was made, and possibly an apology.
It would still be unfair, but I wouldn't feel as excluded, and alot fewer people would complain about it.
I, and a lot of other people were left out of a social event, and being told to stop bitching by users who don't understand why I'm upset at all is not how I wanted to find out why. „
fubenkunai (moderator!)
Quote:
„I'll sign up, definitely.
I'm in the US myself, so technically this doesn't affect me, but it's still a lousy situation. The sponsor is the one choosing this, and I have a strong hunch that's because they only hold the rights to Tsubasa in the US, and therefore can't legally promote it in other countries. While I'd support only taking on sponsors that would allow all our users a chance, I unfortunately don't get a say and I know better than most that Gaia is also a business. I can tell you-- for what little consolation it's worth-- that no one on the staff feels great about the geo-targeting, and they regret that it's hurting so many people. I know this doesn't undo it, but hopefully knowing the effect the Tsubasa quest has had on the site will help choose sponsors in the future. „
I'm in the US myself, so technically this doesn't affect me, but it's still a lousy situation. The sponsor is the one choosing this, and I have a strong hunch that's because they only hold the rights to Tsubasa in the US, and therefore can't legally promote it in other countries. While I'd support only taking on sponsors that would allow all our users a chance, I unfortunately don't get a say and I know better than most that Gaia is also a business. I can tell you-- for what little consolation it's worth-- that no one on the staff feels great about the geo-targeting, and they regret that it's hurting so many people. I know this doesn't undo it, but hopefully knowing the effect the Tsubasa quest has had on the site will help choose sponsors in the future. „
Lyrically Adagio
Quote:
„This is definitely a worthy cause to sign for. Add my name.
It hardly seems legitimate that some big CEOs that do not even use Gaia should have a say in who on the site gets to use the quest. Certainly, it is their company decision, but overall, Gaia's integrity depends on who they choose to exploit their users, and if said sponsors are only willing to offer a quest to a certain nationality, then they should not be hired. That seems like the only fair option, to me; this will undoubtedly stir the waters, but how is this any different from segregation?
Admittedly, the majority of members of GaiaOnline do live in the set countries, but there are a large number of people outside as well, and one would think that GaiaOnline would be more concerned with the happiness of users instead of the happiness of big business. In the end, sponsors do not care about Gaia, and the users do. Such racial inequality will inevitably draw people away from this website, ultimately losing the administration valuable attention and, in some cases, money. Flatly: sponsors are not the ones who spend their time promoting and playing on GaiaOnline. Users are, whatever country they may have been born in.
Even to users in the United States, this topic seems wholly weighted towards racial superiourity, and while this may not have been the intention, I am certain that many other people will feel the same way. Not only this, but allowing outside companies to advertise on the site makes some of us older frequents feel rather as though Gaia is beginning to sell out. What happened to the days when it was about community discussions and playing games, instead of making money? „
It hardly seems legitimate that some big CEOs that do not even use Gaia should have a say in who on the site gets to use the quest. Certainly, it is their company decision, but overall, Gaia's integrity depends on who they choose to exploit their users, and if said sponsors are only willing to offer a quest to a certain nationality, then they should not be hired. That seems like the only fair option, to me; this will undoubtedly stir the waters, but how is this any different from segregation?
Admittedly, the majority of members of GaiaOnline do live in the set countries, but there are a large number of people outside as well, and one would think that GaiaOnline would be more concerned with the happiness of users instead of the happiness of big business. In the end, sponsors do not care about Gaia, and the users do. Such racial inequality will inevitably draw people away from this website, ultimately losing the administration valuable attention and, in some cases, money. Flatly: sponsors are not the ones who spend their time promoting and playing on GaiaOnline. Users are, whatever country they may have been born in.
Even to users in the United States, this topic seems wholly weighted towards racial superiourity, and while this may not have been the intention, I am certain that many other people will feel the same way. Not only this, but allowing outside companies to advertise on the site makes some of us older frequents feel rather as though Gaia is beginning to sell out. What happened to the days when it was about community discussions and playing games, instead of making money? „
monoo
Quote:
„...the law has absloutely nothing to do with this petition. We're not fighting copyright law here, you have misunderstood this petition completely. We are merely trying to make the gaian staff not to repeat it's mistake of teaming up with a sponsor that has demands that will exclude users. Also, we are still waiting for an official excuse and explanation of the situation from the admins. „
surakio
Quote:
„This is not just a game, it's an online community, on which thousands of people have spent money and time to enjoy, a little escape from the real world. If Gaia's sponser events do not include a certain country, then it's just as bad as discrimination. As of now, the sponser events are causing more trouble than their worth. my advice to Gaia is to fix them or take them off. Also, Gaia is a commpany, so they should litsen to their consumer's feeback and suggestions.
P.S. Me sign. ^^ „
P.S. Me sign. ^^ „
monoo
Quote:
„...We are not petitioning against the IRL-events, such as conventions, only the web based ones. The IRL-ones will always be based in America, naturally, and I don't have a problem with that at all.
[...] „
[...] „
Kabinx23
Quote:
„-I sign-
Honestly, I don't see why Gaia only allows ppl living in specific countries to take part in some quests and stuff. The last time I checked, "Gaia" meant "World". So if more than Half the world can't take part in the quests I don't see why it should be called GaiaOnline. „
Honestly, I don't see why Gaia only allows ppl living in specific countries to take part in some quests and stuff. The last time I checked, "Gaia" meant "World". So if more than Half the world can't take part in the quests I don't see why it should be called GaiaOnline. „
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And, we now have the support of a mod!
fubenkunai
I'll sign up, definitely.
I'm in the US myself, so technically this doesn't affect me, but it's still a lousy situation. The sponsor is the one choosing this, and I have a strong hunch that's because they only hold the rights to Tsubasa in the US, and therefore can't legally promote it in other countries. While I'd support only taking on sponsors that would allow all our users a chance, I unfortunately don't get a say and I know better than most that Gaia is also a business. I can tell you-- for what little consolation it's worth-- that no one on the staff feels great about the geo-targeting, and they regret that it's hurting so many people. I know this doesn't undo it, but hopefully knowing the effect the Tsubasa quest has had on the site will help choose sponsors in the future.
I'm in the US myself, so technically this doesn't affect me, but it's still a lousy situation. The sponsor is the one choosing this, and I have a strong hunch that's because they only hold the rights to Tsubasa in the US, and therefore can't legally promote it in other countries. While I'd support only taking on sponsors that would allow all our users a chance, I unfortunately don't get a say and I know better than most that Gaia is also a business. I can tell you-- for what little consolation it's worth-- that no one on the staff feels great about the geo-targeting, and they regret that it's hurting so many people. I know this doesn't undo it, but hopefully knowing the effect the Tsubasa quest has had on the site will help choose sponsors in the future.
_____________________________________
Petition crew;
Captain: monoo
pro & con arguments admin: Simplyfied
bump crew: May Li, Amida Shin Sei, Victoria_Miracle
_____________________________________
heart Feel free to add this to your sig heart
Please visit this thread if you are feeling
uneased by Gaia's choice to team up with a sponsor that deliberately
excludes a big portion of Gaia's users.
FOR EQUALITY ON GAIA - stop exclusion of users!
Please visit this thread if you are feeling
uneased by Gaia's choice to team up with a sponsor that deliberately
excludes a big portion of Gaia's users.
FOR EQUALITY ON GAIA - stop exclusion of users!
[align=center][color=red][size=9]Please visit this thread if you are
feeling uneased by Gaia's choice to team up with a sponsor that
deliberately excludes a big portion of Gaia's users.[/size]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2a8qmo]FOR EQUALITY ON GAIA - stop exclusion of users! [/url][/color][/align]
feeling uneased by Gaia's choice to team up with a sponsor that
deliberately excludes a big portion of Gaia's users.[/size]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2a8qmo]FOR EQUALITY ON GAIA - stop exclusion of users! [/url][/color][/align]
AND BANNERS!
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heart NEW! heart
Courtesy of jello -- POPS heart
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OLD BANNERS;
Please note, yes, these banners have become dated, more new ones will be added soon.
Courtesy of Dr. Eir heart
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Tsubasa Charity!
