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Alright. Let me just say I don't care what anybody does with their body, and I think it's a basic human right to put whatever you want into your body as long as you cause no physical harm to anyone else. Let me also just say I know that it's scientifically documented that I believe in educating people of drugs effects and the effects of addiction, rather than locking them up for their vices.
Now that that's out of the way, I have to tell you guys a secret. I have a drug problem. It's not with cocaine, amphetamines, or any stimulants. It's not with alcohol, opiates, or any depressants. It's not with tobacco, prescription medicines, or anything else like that. I don't use those drugs because, surprise, I know the facts about them, and know the physical addiction and damage from longterm use aren't appealing to me.
My problem, it's with pot and psychedelic hallucinogens. They aren't dangerous unless you have a genetic predisposition for schizophrenia or other mental illness, they aren't physically addicting, and they induce experiences you can't have by any other process. They induce experiences that allow you direct contact and contact with the concept of infinity. Some people label these experiences as religious experiences, and I guess I agree. These substances are the body and blood of christ for me. They allow me to come into contact with the divine a lot more effectively than some stale crackers and watered down wine. I advocate the education of the people in schools, rather than the misinformation and indoctrination of them, and I advocate treating the people whom are being taught about drugs as people who can think for themselves, rather than as things you can pump information into until they mindlessly repeat the rhetoric. I also advocate the widespread usage of these drugs. These substances induce experiences, which are for some reason being suppressed by the authoritative powers that be. Why are these experiences being suppressed? Why would an experience be suppressed? Once you experience it, you will understand why it is suppressed.
So. What drugs do I do? And what drugs do I advocate you all do? Well, for one, I advocate smoking the most potent pot you can obtain on a regular basis. At least once a day every day. Everyone should experience psychedelic mushrooms at least once, in doses above 5 grams in silent darkness. Salvia Divinorum, smoked in high amounts while outside, or while under the influence of other psychedelics, will allow you to contact deities directly. Peyote is a wonderful ally, allowing you contact with the spirits of your ancestors. Ayahuasca is one of my personal favorites, it is an intensely powerful brew used for millennia by amazonian shamen for healing purposes. Smoking DMT crystals will allow you to experience nonlinguistic raw comsciousness, completely unpolluted by the illusions of time and sensory perception.
Also, before you just wave me off as a pathetic waste of life whose mind is held strong by the influence of drugs, let me assure you I know this topic very well. I hold degrees in neurochemistry and psychopharmacology. I've studied the pertinent scientific literature to the best extent possible in this atmosphere of informational suppression, and can answer almost any question you would have regarding drugs, no matter how 'loaded' you can make them.
This is a discussion about psychedelic shamanism as a faith, and how to practice it, if you want to get technical.


Quote:
PrincessNeko Wrote:
Umm...I'm quite sure that you can interact with infinity by doing Calculus without having to know whether your family has a history of schizophrenia or not.

Quote:
Salvia Divinorum, smoked in high amounts while outside, or while under the influence of other psychedelics, will allow you to contact deities directly. Peyote is a wonderful ally, allowing you contact with the spirits of your ancestors. Ayahuasca is one of my personal favorites, it is an intensely powerful brew used for millennia by amazonian shamen for healing purposes. Smoking DMT crystals will allow you to experience nonlinguistic raw comsciousness, completely unpolluted by the illusions of time and sensory perception.


Hmm...interesting. And what exactly is the nature of the divine that you are speaking of here mr. uh degree person?

And yes, my family does have a history of schizophrenia...I guess I'm not entitled to interacting with the divine... icon_evil.gif

icon_rofl.gif

You aren't directly interacting with infinity, you are teaching yourself an abstraction of it. You can't understand what I am attempting to describe, because words can't describe it well. You lose awareness of yourself as separate from everything else, and become completely aware of your surroundings and the way you integrate with the world. You become aware of your cosmic role, and to some it is crushing because it's not very big. They remove your ego and allow 'you' to be a part of the universe in nonlinguistic felt experience.
Quote:
Tsynni Wrote:
Hum. I found this post very interesting...

I think the problem with all this is that I get these mixed messages from every direction. Some people tell me pot is bad for me, others tell me it isn't really harmful. I'm not really sure what to think about all this, because I've heard both from relatively credible sources. While your opinion could be completely credible, and you could actually be well educated in these areas, it's really hard to tell online.

For me, I think I'll stick with being a goody two shoes for now. Somehow, I can't see my parents going along with the whole "you should smoke pot everyday" philosophy.

But hey, do with you body what you will.

I agree that online it's impossible to tell if someone is credible or not, but would you like any information regarding anything about drugs? Scientific papers about the safety of pot, how it causes hippocampal neurogenesis, how it causes density of brain cells to increase, how babies whose mothers smoke marijuana while pregnant have a faster developmental rate and are self sufficient faster?
I'll give citations if you just ask.
Quote:
Ratreoz Wrote:
So... What's your problem? It seems to Me that you indulge in these things. It is only when it turns into compulsion (addiction) that I see drug-use as a problem...


Anyway, I recently tried Salvia. I used a small pipe, but didn't get much effect. Any advice you could give Me?

The proper way to smoke salvia is to smoke about a half of a pipeload, keep the flame on the plant matter the whole time you are inhaling, and hold the smoke in for as long as you can. Try for over 30 seconds, and you'll see what I mean. You'll see the world begin to change from a euclidean geometry to a noneuclidean MC Escheresque mathematical jumble, and will feel gravity pulling you in different directions than down. You'll feel a rush of wind on your face, and possibly entity contact.
Quote:
Sphinxfeather Wrote:
Hmm, very interesting. I would be reluctant to advocate any kind of drug, but I also know there are cultures/religions that need such psychadellic drugs, where it is an established parts of their faith (The one I have in mind in particular are the Rastafari. It's a nice religion, though if you're a woman it kinda sucks...but with the exception of their beliefs about women, overall I can appreciate the principles they are trying to advocate. Anyway, Ganja or Marijuanna is an integral part of their religion)
I am not going to comment on whether or not you can get closer to God using such drugs, since I don't quite feel I have the right to tell people how to get close to God (since that is what people have been doing throughout history, and it is when they do so that they usually ******** up), although I will say it's not a method I would use.
However, I do think you are going to find it to advocate it in the United State

I believe that the substance itself should be the faith and the spirit contained within the substance should be worshipped as the 'God.' In my eyes, the experience given by these plants, in exchange for them allowing you to kill them and ingest them, is a gift given by nature and whatever ordering force created these substances that interact so beautifully with our brains. I am against forcing beliefs onto anyone, I am against discrimination of any kind, especially sexual discrimination. In fact, most of the most powerful shamen are women. Women hold the power of creation in their bodies, and in my eyes that power has been held against women by organized religion for as long as it has existed, because men feared it and wanted to suppress it. Maria Sabina was one of the preeminent shamanesses of the 20th century, and she intruduced the psilocybin mushroom and salvia divinorum to western culture openly. I know it's bad to tell someone how to contact and get closer to god, but when something exists that has worked since before the beginning of written history, and has been used to contact the spirit realm reliably even to this day, I think it's a shame to not use the right to free speech to inform people about it.
I mean, free speech is meant to protect speech that people don't want to hear, not the stuff everyone hears every day.

Quote:
Ratreoz Wrote:
So... What's your problem? It seems to Me that you indulge in these things. It is only when it turns into compulsion (addiction) that I see drug-use as a problem...


Anyway, I recently tried Salvia. I used a small pipe, but didn't get much effect. Any advice you could give Me?
The proper way to smoke salvia is to smoke about a half of a pipeload, keep the flame on the plant matter the whole time you are inhaling, and hold the smoke in for as long as you can. Try for over 30 seconds, and you'll see what I mean. You'll see the world begin to change from a euclidean geometry to a noneuclidean MC Escheresque mathematical jumble, and will feel gravity pulling you in different directions than down. You'll feel a rush of wind on your face, and possibly entity contact.

Thank you. I shall try that then.


Anyway, while the effects of 'shrooms are spectacular, I would hardly call them divine.

Quote:
PrincessNeko Wrote:
Umm...I'm quite sure that you can interact with infinity by doing Calculus without having to know whether your family has a history of schizophrenia or not.

Quote:
Salvia Divinorum, smoked in high amounts while outside, or while under the influence of other psychedelics, will allow you to contact deities directly. Peyote is a wonderful ally, allowing you contact with the spirits of your ancestors. Ayahuasca is one of my personal favorites, it is an intensely powerful brew used for millennia by amazonian shamen for healing purposes. Smoking DMT crystals will allow you to experience nonlinguistic raw comsciousness, completely unpolluted by the illusions of time and sensory perception.


Hmm...interesting. And what exactly is the nature of the divine that you are speaking of here mr. uh degree person?

And yes, my family does have a history of schizophrenia...I guess I'm not entitled to interacting with the divine... icon_evil.gif

icon_rofl.gif
You aren't directly interacting with infinity, you are teaching yourself an abstraction of it. You can't understand what I am attempting to describe, because words can't describe it well. You lose awareness of yourself as separate from everything else, and become completely aware of your surroundings and the way you integrate with the world. You become aware of your cosmic role, and to some it is crushing because it's not very big. They remove your ego and allow 'you' to be a part of the universe in nonlinguistic felt experience.


I'm still curious about this idea of "divinity" that you are describing, but the way it sounds to me, it sounds like a lot of stuff that can't be described.

I would say that we go through non-linguistic experiences everyday. Most of our feelings are attempted to be explained but the facets of it cannot be by language. I know at least I go through it everyday. Even just the EXPERIENCE of taste and touch. If you say, "alligator tastes like chicken"...what if the other person has never tasted "chicken"?

And "integrating yourself with the world" doesn't make much sense in this context because all that is happening is an inner stimulus. It's all in the chemicals that make up your brain rearranging themselves to interact with something different. Yes, it's different, but I doubt drugs constitute "the world".

You become aware of your cosmic role? "Tripping" has different effects for different people for some it makes them paranoid, some calms them down, some go to sleep, some see funky things (like the supposed divine), etc. After all, why would you add that "schizophrenic" clause to it at all?

In conclusion, yeah, experiences are pretty great, but then again, there are many experiences that we will never be able to go through. I don't see what makes this one so special.

I added the schizophrenic clause to it because it is physically dangerous to take psychedelic drugs if you are genetically predisposed to schizophrenia or mental illness, as it will make the latent mental illness completely active instead of inactive. You say you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia: do you think in your current state you would need to be institutionalized? Many people who are in your current state, who take psychedelics, need to be institutionalized.
The divinity I am talking about is described as a state of samadhi, as the bodhi mind, as absolute grace, and as 'tripping.'
Your description of 'tripping' makes no sense, you are not referring to tripping. You are referring to smoking pot. If you've ever seen someone on LSD or mushrooms, you would know they don't get sleepy or get calmed down. It's different than that. It ramps up pattern recognition to the point that you become aware of the process of pattern recognition itself. You become aware of the order of things, you have a completely different perception of time and space. It's not an inner stimulus you are reacting to, it's the normal sensory perception you are reacting to, but with a different chemical process than usual.
I am referring to a oneness of all sensory perception, the unclouded experience of the now, and being aware of everything that has ever been and ever will be as a part of yourself. It's similar to being acutely in tune to the idea that your mind creates reality to the point that you can manipulate it, or watch reality get perturbed as your mind is altered.
Quote:
AzraelA0D Wrote:
Well Bollocks to all the divine idea of weed, all I know is that I smoke it, a load of chemical processes happen, and then my head feels like it'll float off my shoulders so it's damn enjoyable.

Weed may or may not be divine, but I believe that anyone who thinks that these substances aren't divine just aren't doing them in high enough doses.
You fail . Drugs are nothing but an artificial way to experience spirituality . True spirituality if there is such a thing involves finding the same feeling and achieving the same high by your own means ... not by smoking some dope that gives you the hallucination of such .

If drugs are a form of spirituality , then its a form for noobs and noobs alone .
Hey, I found spirituality through mushrooms, and I view psychedelics as a sacrament in my practice.

So yeah, I hear ya. There are a lot of ignorant people out there, but don't let them get you down. Just remember: people have been using psychedelics spiritually for thousands of years before Christ was even born.
Thy_Mushroom
You fail . Drugs are nothing but an artificial way to experience spirituality . True spirituality if there is such a thing involves finding the same feeling and achieving the same high by your own means ... not by smoking some dope that gives you the hallucination of such .

If drugs are a form of spirituality , then its a form for noobs and noobs alone .
You fail. Did you know that your brain has a store of Dimethyltryptamine in it, which is a psychedelic drug? And that when you have a 'religious' experience by 'your own means' such as meditation or by having a near death experience, it is just your pineal gland releasing this chemical?
Why not take a shortcut to this, rather than spend 40 years learning how to sit crosslegged breathing in a certain way? You can eat mushrooms and meditate and get further in 5 hours than you could have gotten in 15 years of sober meditation. Even the buddha indulged in mind altering chemicals, most notably scopalamine alkaloid containing seeds. Datura. Thorn Apple. Angel's Trumpet.
Thy_Mushroom
You fail . Drugs are nothing but an artificial way to experience spirituality . True spirituality if there is such a thing involves finding the same feeling and achieving the same high by your own means ... not by smoking some dope that gives you the hallucination of such .

If drugs are a form of spirituality , then its a form for noobs and noobs alone .


Drugs can be a fast way to show you how to get there. And once you come down, you'll remember that pathway for the rest of your life. It's not like you can only experience this while under the influence of a psychedelic ... they are teachers, allies, and friends.
eloH
You fail. Did you know that your brain has a store of Dimethyltryptamine in it, which is a psychedelic drug? And that when you have a 'religious' experience by 'your own means' such as meditation or by having a near death experience, it is just your pineal gland releasing this chemical?
Why not take a shortcut to this, rather than spend 40 years learning how to sit crosslegged breathing in a certain way? You can eat mushrooms and meditate and get further in 5 hours than you could have gotten in 15 years of sober meditation. Even the buddha indulged in mind altering chemicals, most notably scopalamine alkaloid containing seeds. Datura. Thorn Apple. Angel's Trumpet.


No, Thy_Mushroom is correct. YOU fail. A natural chemical produced by your body is fine because its produced by your body for your body. It can't kill you. Drugs are not natural nor are they produced to help you do anything other than kill yourself, for they slowly destroy your body. Drugs are addictive to gaureentee this. I'd rather take 40 years learning how to sit and mediate instead of "taking a shortcut" and dying in 20 years.
Drugs can and do help with spirituality , but some people cannot handle that and are just out for recreational use, sober spirituality doesn't take 40 years like you said but it can take longer, honestly I prefer to be sober during spiritual practices so I know what it and what isn't a hallucination , but I will never forget my friend who uses mushrooms and salvia quite effectivly.
ReiDuck
Drugs can be a fast way to show you how to get there. And once you come down, you'll remember that pathway for the rest of your life. It's not like you can only experience this while under the influence of a psychedelic ... they are teachers, allies, and friends.


They are also murderers. You won't HAVE the rest of your life.
Smoking DMT is akin to experiencing what the buddha experienced while meditating after he achieved his enlightenment. Meditation is a lesser form of 'enlightenment' when compared to entheogenic enlightenment. Meditation releases only DMT into the brain in small amounts. When you take an entheogen, it causes your mindest to be forcibly changed in ways that surpass the states that meditation masters have experienced. Mescaline, Psilocybin, DMT+MAOI, these all are scales of magnitude more intense and enlightening than the states induced by meditation alone.
You can meditate to induce a DMT flash. You can meditate to induce ego loss. The facts are, though, that .1% of the meditating population will ever achieve either. You can regularly induce a DMT flash by smoking or injecting it, and you can achieve ego loss with anything ranging from 2 grams of mushrooms, to 2 lungfuls of salvia divinorum, to 800 mg of mescaline, to 4 hits of blotter acid, to 20g of morning glory seeds, to drinking a coffee cup full of potent ayahuasca.
ReiDuck
Hey, I found spirituality through mushrooms, and I view psychedelics as a sacrament in my practice.

So yeah, I hear ya. There are a lot of ignorant people out there, but don't let them get you down. Just remember: people have been using psychedelics spiritually for thousands of years before Christ was even born.
Yes, but the difference between 0-3.5g of mushrooms and 3.5-12g of mushrooms is indescribable. If you've ever done a dose of 10g of mushrooms while in silent darkness meditating, and you experience the most intense tearing of your ego from your perceptions, you will never be the same.
Yukina_Raven
eloH
You fail. Did you know that your brain has a store of Dimethyltryptamine in it, which is a psychedelic drug? And that when you have a 'religious' experience by 'your own means' such as meditation or by having a near death experience, it is just your pineal gland releasing this chemical?
Why not take a shortcut to this, rather than spend 40 years learning how to sit crosslegged breathing in a certain way? You can eat mushrooms and meditate and get further in 5 hours than you could have gotten in 15 years of sober meditation. Even the buddha indulged in mind altering chemicals, most notably scopalamine alkaloid containing seeds. Datura. Thorn Apple. Angel's Trumpet.


No, Thy_Mushroom is correct. YOU fail. A natural chemical produced by your body is fine because its produced by your body for your body. It can't kill you. Drugs are not natural nor are they produced to help you do anything other than kill yourself, for they slowly destroy your body. Drugs are addictive to gaureentee this. I'd rather take 40 years learning how to sit and mediate instead of "taking a shortcut" and dying in 20 years.
Do you know the lethal dose of mushrooms? Do you know the lethal dose of mescaline or DMT or LSD or marijuana? Are you making conjecture based upon unscientific rhetoric that has been blasted into your head by an information-suppressing government? Have you ever taken a pharmacology course? Do you know the mechanisms of action in these drugs? Do you know if they are physically addicting or not? Do you understand the chemical mechanisms of addiction? Have you ever read a scientific paper in your life?
Or are you just being stupid?
You dont get it , and probobly wont , so I will explain it as simply as I can .

You know when you play a video game or just any normal game your goal is to win and have fun , but ultimatly you gain experience and learn new techniques from your attempt to win ?

Think of drugs like cheating in a game . You win . You get all the fealings that go with it , but did you get any better ? Can you win without cheating ? What if you could no longer cheat ?

Its like swimming with floats on . Your swimming , but do you know how to swim ? Do you even remotely understand the art of swimming by using such an item ? No , you dont . The minute I fire my bb-gun at your little floats you start flapping around like a retard .

Achieving spiritualty through the use of drugs is the same thing . And you must have been joking when you said our brain uses natural drugs and thus makes my statement hypocritical . Thats like saying using floats to swim takes just as much skill as using your naturally born hands and feet .

Quote:
Do you know the lethal dose of mushrooms? Do you know the lethal dose of mescaline or DMT or LSD or marijuana? Are you making conjecture based upon unscientific rhetoric that has been blasted into your head by an information-suppressing government? Have you ever taken a pharmacology course? Do you know the mechanisms of action in these drugs? Do you know if they are physically addicting or not? Do you understand the chemical mechanisms of addiction? Have you ever read a scientific paper in your life?
Or are you just being stupid?


Do you know that that has absolutly nothing to do with the point ?
Yukina_Raven
eloH
You fail. Did you know that your brain has a store of Dimethyltryptamine in it, which is a psychedelic drug? And that when you have a 'religious' experience by 'your own means' such as meditation or by having a near death experience, it is just your pineal gland releasing this chemical?
Why not take a shortcut to this, rather than spend 40 years learning how to sit crosslegged breathing in a certain way? You can eat mushrooms and meditate and get further in 5 hours than you could have gotten in 15 years of sober meditation. Even the buddha indulged in mind altering chemicals, most notably scopalamine alkaloid containing seeds. Datura. Thorn Apple. Angel's Trumpet.


No, Thy_Mushroom is correct. YOU fail. A natural chemical produced by your body is fine because its produced by your body for your body. It can't kill you. Drugs are not natural nor are they produced to help you do anything other than kill yourself, for they slowly destroy your body. Drugs are addictive to gaureentee this. I'd rather take 40 years learning how to sit and mediate instead of "taking a shortcut" and dying in 20 years.


Psychedelics are not addictive, nor are they neurotoxic. Maybe you should study before you spout ignorance, eh?

DMT is a neurotransmitter. This is kinda like taking serotonin tablets or something.
Yukina_Raven
ReiDuck
Drugs can be a fast way to show you how to get there. And once you come down, you'll remember that pathway for the rest of your life. It's not like you can only experience this while under the influence of a psychedelic ... they are teachers, allies, and friends.


They are also murderers. You won't HAVE the rest of your life.


Psychedelics are virutally impossible to overdose on. Now, the tropane-alkaloids ... those are dangerous as hell. Hence I restrict myself to the psychedelics, which have no physical negative effects.
Thy_Mushroom
You dont get it , and probobly wont , so I will explain it as simply as I can .

You know when you play a video game or just any normal game your goal is to win and have fun , but ultimatly you gain experience and learn new techniques from your attempt to win ?

Think of drugs like cheating in a game . You win . You get all the fealings that go with it , but did you get any better ? Can you win without cheating ? What if you could no longer cheat ?

Its like swimming with floats on . Your swimming , but do you know how to swim ? Do you even remotely understand the art of swimming by using such an item ? No , you dont . The minute I fire my bb-gun at your little floats you start flapping around like a retard .

Achieving spiritualty through the use of drugs is the same thing . And you must have been joking when you said our brain uses natural drugs and thus makes my statement hypocritical . Thats like saying using floats to swim takes just as much skill as using your naturally born hands and feet .
It is not like swimming with floats on. It is not like cheating in a game. Have you ever done any psychedelic drugs, or are you just judging something you've never touched?
Also, how was I joking? Do you know the chemicals that are in your own brain? Did you know that there's a store of DMT in your pineal gland right now? Did you know that the pineal gland releases it to induce religious experiences? Do you know anything about neurochemistry, or are you just trying to prove that I am incorrect by using completely unrelated examples and metaphors? Nothing you said has anything to do with anything I've said, except how I must be wrong because you said so.

"DMT is a neurotransmitter that, when ingested and allowed to come to rest in unusually large amounts in the synapses of the brain, allows one to see sound [synaesthesia], so that one can use the voice to produce not musical compositions, but pictorial and visual compositions. This, to my mind, indicates that we're on the cusp of some kind of evolutionary transition in the language-forming area, so that we are going to go from a language that is heard to a language that is seen, through a shift in interior processing." - Terence McKenna - The Archaic Revival
Thy_Mushroom
You dont get it , and probobly wont , so I will explain it as simply as I can .

You know when you play a video game or just any normal game your goal is to win and have fun , but ultimatly you gain experience and learn new techniques from your attempt to win ?

Think of drugs like cheating in a game . You win . You get all the fealings that go with it , but did you get any better ? Can you win without cheating ? What if you could no longer cheat ?

Its like swimming with floats on . Your swimming , but do you know how to swim ? Do you even remotely understand the art of swimming by using such an item ? No , you dont . The minute I fire my bb-gun at your little floats you start flapping around like a retard .

Achieving spiritualty through the use of drugs is the same thing . And you must have been joking when you said our brain uses natural drugs and thus makes my statement hypocritical . Thats like saying using floats to swim takes just as much skill as using your naturally born hands and feet .

Quote:
Do you know the lethal dose of mushrooms? Do you know the lethal dose of mescaline or DMT or LSD or marijuana? Are you making conjecture based upon unscientific rhetoric that has been blasted into your head by an information-suppressing government? Have you ever taken a pharmacology course? Do you know the mechanisms of action in these drugs? Do you know if they are physically addicting or not? Do you understand the chemical mechanisms of addiction? Have you ever read a scientific paper in your life?
Or are you just being stupid?


Do you know that that has absolutly nothing to do with the point ?


Drugs are teachers. It's not cheating if I study under a guru, so why is it cheating if I study under a drug? Both have knowledge and wisdom to give me; in fact, a drug enables me to figure stuff out on my own by making my mind more powerful, rather than me simply hearing what others have learned.

Incidentally, my guru-to-be is also a tripper. He was a major distributor of LSD during the 70's for spiritual use.

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