Sextans
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400
Thread locked by Sextans request*
Original Post Ask the admin (10/01/2012)
Good Evening Gaia Staff
its me again, your friend Sextans.
I've made several threads in the past regarding the abuse/exploitation of the just added page section located in the drop down on the marketplace page.
To my understanding they use browsers that auto-fill the password section to snag new listings within the first 5 seconds of being listed,I have even contacted some of the major vendors and misprice snipers and many of them use this form of botting(buying through non human interaction>auto filling password browser).
You state in the rules that its against your Terms Of Service to use botting,a function that allows someone to purchase something or earn gold through non-human interaction means.
Such programs that automatically fill-in your password are against the Term of Service.
or you could just throw out bans and warnings at those using this bot feature.
But its easy to assume that even throwing out bans wouldn't prevent them from doing it again if they are set to be botting through this feature so the best solution seems to be a time delay on listings,a delay between posting a new listing and it showing up in the marketplace such as a 4-5 minute delay could help prevent the exploitation and botting.
or remove the just added section entirely to prevent the botting in regards to this.
By doing these things it violates the TOS so...
Staff Responses:
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
Ask the admin (10/01/2012)
1.- why aren't you enforcing these rules?
1. We do enforce the rules, unfortunately we can't be at all places at once so we also rely on users to report this for us. If you find or know of people abusing this, then report them so we can actually look into these situations further
.
2.- so why don't you do anything to help prevent botting through the just added section?
2. Couldn't tell you off-hand, but if I had to venture a guess it would be because it requires a lot of dev time and our devs are busy trying to fix bugs and make new features for everyone.
3.- Do Gaia Staff approve that behaviour of sniping misprices? is that how your System Works? Lanzer?
3. We do not approve of sniping any misprices through illegitimate means such as botting programs, however, if a user buys a misprice off the vend through legitimate means, then that is not something actually against the rules.
Lanzer Oct 1st 2012
Ask the admin (10/01/2012) Lanzer
We definitely want to put more measures to prevent mispricing and most ideas are actually more sophisticated, but I definitely agree that making units more visible do help. We'll put that on the list of improvements to be done ASAP. Thank you!
Ask the admin (09/17/2012)
Ask the admin (09/10/2012)
Gaia just got a little bit safer today! Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:25 pm
Gaia Community Discussion
Sitefeedback
carbonphyber
If anyone has evidence that a specific marketplace page is being exploited. please PM me and I will make sure it's handled.
LastPass and Automatic Page Submission Programs t.77630821
Uncle Kenny
We've noticed an increase in the number of questions about the use of programs to help you buy items more quickly in the Marketplace. Rather than respond only to the individual questions, we decided to address it in a larger setting.
In a general sense, we do not encourage any user to use any of these programs. Using programs, which automatically fill-in your password and submit the page, can make you appear to be using a bot and could result in a ban on your account.
Using these programs allows you to bypass the buying confirmation page and purchase the item faster than an average person could. By doing this, you can reach a point where you make yourself look exactly like a bot since that is what bots are programmed to do. When your actions start to mirror those of a bot, we lose the ability to easily differentiate you from those bots. This can lead to your account not only having its trading pass disabled for investigation but can also lead to your account receiving a permanent ban from the website for botting. Save yourself the hassle and frustration and just don't use anything that will get you to that point.
We do not want to ban anyone who just wants to have fun buying up items in the Marketplace so please do your best to not make use of these programs. We know something that lets you bypass the confirmation page is appealing, but saving yourself 3 seconds and a mouse click is not worth being banned, so just don't do it.
carbonphyber
a) This type of problem is 99.995% user/browser error.
b) You have to use the "confirm vend" screen for what it was designed for
verifing that the price you set on an item is the price you want to sell it for.
c) Your password (which is required to list an item on the marketplace) is your
confirmation that you read and agree to that confirmation screen.
IF AND ONLY IF you accept the price that is displayed on the confirmation page.
UK
While this does lead to the instances of users losing mispriced items,
it falls on the user to take the time to make sure they have accurately filled out the information for the sale they wish to make.
Multiple screens are given in order to serve this purpose and it is the user's responsibility to take the time and focus necessary to ensure that the content they're submitting is correct.
The "Just Added" section of the Marketplace serves as a landing page for anyone searching for a random item, great deals, or something that just looks really shiny.
By not implementing a fix or doing anything you might as well be giving the green light that those who abuse this feature can snatch up misprices while botting to do so can get away with it.
This has been a on going problem for years now and I have yet to see a fix
Yes I've heard it repeated several times that it is the users fault for listing a misprice even though there is no warning on many items that states it as a misprice.
Adding a feature that allows AUTO-COMMAS would correct some mispricing ,perhaps it could add a comma every three zero's?
SiteFeedback Incident Thread was Recycled
Yesterday Sep 30th 2012
a New thread created with the sole purpose of gathering feedback was locked recycled actually from SiteFeedback into the recycled Bin.
It is very clear now that none of your Moderators want threads asking for improvements to the confirmation page. yeah you will say it was a little off-topic ..maybe. but not when i left it since i was planning to come back later with more on-topic feedback.
In fact if its very irritating having these threads in forum 137, make it against the rules add something to the Frequently Mentioned Issues that states
any thread asking for improvements to the confirmation page or any suggestion related to improve the marketplace will be recycled.
Period, end of Story.
okay, that was not the point. do whatever you want with your forums.
its been proven there is Favoritism in Gaia (like im not one of your favorite gaians, hehe..oh darn sweatdrop ) well, i wont go further in details.
ive never mispriced an item before. i try to be careful .
I'm only suggesting this because I seen people cry over their lost items.
oh yeah even though ive used the confirmation page 40,000 times in the last 4 years what if one day i made a mistake like that? indeed it will be my fault but... with the auto-commas implementation i will never ever make that mistake for sure. i guarantee 100 percent!
Please DARKNRGY,carbonphyber
this is feedback from the recycled thread 82552229
- - Synxified
I actually like this idea. I've never mispriced an item before, but many people I've met have.
A slight delay would be really handy for this type of situation and if it was an optional setting for the Marketplace, then it could help those who have mispriced items countless number of times.
I hate hearing the same story about them mispricing and PM'ing the buyer nicely about the situation and yet the buyer/vendor is too rude to even be nice enough to give the person's item back.
I don't care if it's to gain profit, this isn't the real world and people treating it like that... Where the hell is their brains? I mean, even if I did misprice an item on here, I'd be upset like any other person would be and probably freak out too, but I'd also look back and just see it as another heap of pixels.
And I'd also probably PM the buyer asking for the item back in exchange for the gold. But yeah, the whole delay before it actually being set into the market is a great idea. I know it might not be implemented into the site right away, but maybe in the next coming months or year it could be added.
Sleepie_Zz
The marketplace is the most important feature on this site. This is an avatar site after all for selling and buying items to make yourself look pretty. Any safe precaution made to the marketplace will benefit someone out there.
Mistakes happen and the extra time will help someone out there, might not be everyone, but it is helpful to some. Considering everyone uses the marketplace feature, some can amount to a lot of users on here.
When the Developers themselves had asked feedback on way to improve the current system. They can make this optional for people who choose not to have the delay.
IIwizardeigesII
I honestly didn't even know the just added section was there until i seen this thread,
i've always wonderd how the hell people buy listings within the first 5 seconds they are put up.
I've been here for years and never seen any mention of it...then again
I rarely use forums due to negativity in each and every single one of them, someone always has to argue and reject someones ideas, yeah big woop they are voicing their opinion,but it wouldnt hurt to give some support or at least don't freaking post if all one has is negativity to spread.
Seems messed up you never address this when I am one of the first people to post in the ATA.
Thank you for your time and I hope you can do something about this on going problem.
Original Post Ask the admin (10/01/2012)
Lets write this down in Stone, so itll never be forgotten.
Good Evening Gaia Staff
its me again, your friend Sextans.
I've made several threads in the past regarding the abuse/exploitation of the just added page section located in the drop down on the marketplace page.
To my understanding they use browsers that auto-fill the password section to snag new listings within the first 5 seconds of being listed,I have even contacted some of the major vendors and misprice snipers and many of them use this form of botting(buying through non human interaction>auto filling password browser).
You state in the rules that its against your Terms Of Service to use botting,a function that allows someone to purchase something or earn gold through non-human interaction means.
Such programs that automatically fill-in your password are against the Term of Service.
or you could just throw out bans and warnings at those using this bot feature.
But its easy to assume that even throwing out bans wouldn't prevent them from doing it again if they are set to be botting through this feature so the best solution seems to be a time delay on listings,a delay between posting a new listing and it showing up in the marketplace such as a 4-5 minute delay could help prevent the exploitation and botting.
or remove the just added section entirely to prevent the botting in regards to this.
Sleepie_Zz
I also know there's a whole bunch of codes to speed up your browser by eliminating certain area on the site. How? Cause a member of the guild was bragging about it on livestream and even pmed me the code as evident ;D
There's also a whole hack site outside dedicated for this purpose. *and yes, I would make a good private eye investigator by going into enemies territory* Integrity is lost.
There are guides in the guild that teaches you how to autofill password which can be considered a hack program since gaia didn't design the marketplace to be that way.
Not to mention all those codes to eliminate site features provided by members of the guild
There's also a whole hack site outside dedicated for this purpose. *and yes, I would make a good private eye investigator by going into enemies territory* Integrity is lost.
There are guides in the guild that teaches you how to autofill password which can be considered a hack program since gaia didn't design the marketplace to be that way.
Not to mention all those codes to eliminate site features provided by members of the guild
By doing these things it violates the TOS so...
Staff Responses:
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
Ask the admin (10/01/2012)
1.- why aren't you enforcing these rules?
1. We do enforce the rules, unfortunately we can't be at all places at once so we also rely on users to report this for us. If you find or know of people abusing this, then report them so we can actually look into these situations further
.
2.- so why don't you do anything to help prevent botting through the just added section?
2. Couldn't tell you off-hand, but if I had to venture a guess it would be because it requires a lot of dev time and our devs are busy trying to fix bugs and make new features for everyone.
3.- Do Gaia Staff approve that behaviour of sniping misprices? is that how your System Works? Lanzer?
3. We do not approve of sniping any misprices through illegitimate means such as botting programs, however, if a user buys a misprice off the vend through legitimate means, then that is not something actually against the rules.
Lanzer Oct 1st 2012
Ask the admin (10/01/2012) Lanzer
We definitely want to put more measures to prevent mispricing and most ideas are actually more sophisticated, but I definitely agree that making units more visible do help. We'll put that on the list of improvements to be done ASAP. Thank you!
Ask the admin (09/17/2012)
Ask the admin (09/10/2012)
Gaia just got a little bit safer today! Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:25 pm
Gaia Community Discussion
Sitefeedback
admin
Heya Gaians!
We just wanted to let you know that we've made some great progress on the Gaia account safety front.
As of today, a well-known anti-Gaia hacking/scamming site has been taken down so that Gaia is a little more safe now.
Such hacking/cheat sites are a safety issue for our community at large.
We believe the removal of this site will help protect our community members from experiencing any negative account issues,
and will add to the overall security of Gaia accounts and enhance members' enjoyment of Gaia.
Please know that we are committed to continuing to work with
our legal team to get all such hacking/scamming sites shut down.
You are all important to us, each and every
one of you,
and we don't want you to be victimized by such places.
Make sure to report any sites promoting Gaia hacks, cheats, exploits, etc.
* Never engaging in cheating, hacking, or using exploits on Gaia.
Using anything that claims to be a cheat for getting Gaia gold, cash,
or items is at best a bannable offense for cheating. Play fair!
We just wanted to let you know that we've made some great progress on the Gaia account safety front.
As of today, a well-known anti-Gaia hacking/scamming site has been taken down so that Gaia is a little more safe now.
Such hacking/cheat sites are a safety issue for our community at large.
We believe the removal of this site will help protect our community members from experiencing any negative account issues,
and will add to the overall security of Gaia accounts and enhance members' enjoyment of Gaia.
Please know that we are committed to continuing to work with
our legal team to get all such hacking/scamming sites shut down.
You are all important to us, each and every
one of you,
and we don't want you to be victimized by such places.
Make sure to report any sites promoting Gaia hacks, cheats, exploits, etc.
* Never engaging in cheating, hacking, or using exploits on Gaia.
Using anything that claims to be a cheat for getting Gaia gold, cash,
or items is at best a bannable offense for cheating. Play fair!
carbonphyber
If anyone has evidence that a specific marketplace page is being exploited. please PM me and I will make sure it's handled.
LastPass and Automatic Page Submission Programs t.77630821
Uncle Kenny
We've noticed an increase in the number of questions about the use of programs to help you buy items more quickly in the Marketplace. Rather than respond only to the individual questions, we decided to address it in a larger setting.
In a general sense, we do not encourage any user to use any of these programs. Using programs, which automatically fill-in your password and submit the page, can make you appear to be using a bot and could result in a ban on your account.
Using these programs allows you to bypass the buying confirmation page and purchase the item faster than an average person could. By doing this, you can reach a point where you make yourself look exactly like a bot since that is what bots are programmed to do. When your actions start to mirror those of a bot, we lose the ability to easily differentiate you from those bots. This can lead to your account not only having its trading pass disabled for investigation but can also lead to your account receiving a permanent ban from the website for botting. Save yourself the hassle and frustration and just don't use anything that will get you to that point.
We do not want to ban anyone who just wants to have fun buying up items in the Marketplace so please do your best to not make use of these programs. We know something that lets you bypass the confirmation page is appealing, but saving yourself 3 seconds and a mouse click is not worth being banned, so just don't do it.
carbonphyber
a) This type of problem is 99.995% user/browser error.
b) You have to use the "confirm vend" screen for what it was designed for
verifing that the price you set on an item is the price you want to sell it for.
c) Your password (which is required to list an item on the marketplace) is your
confirmation that you read and agree to that confirmation screen.
IF AND ONLY IF you accept the price that is displayed on the confirmation page.
UK
While this does lead to the instances of users losing mispriced items,
it falls on the user to take the time to make sure they have accurately filled out the information for the sale they wish to make.
Multiple screens are given in order to serve this purpose and it is the user's responsibility to take the time and focus necessary to ensure that the content they're submitting is correct.
The "Just Added" section of the Marketplace serves as a landing page for anyone searching for a random item, great deals, or something that just looks really shiny.
By not implementing a fix or doing anything you might as well be giving the green light that those who abuse this feature can snatch up misprices while botting to do so can get away with it.
This has been a on going problem for years now and I have yet to see a fix
Yes I've heard it repeated several times that it is the users fault for listing a misprice even though there is no warning on many items that states it as a misprice.
Adding a feature that allows AUTO-COMMAS would correct some mispricing ,perhaps it could add a comma every three zero's?
SiteFeedback Incident Thread was Recycled
Yesterday Sep 30th 2012
a New thread created with the sole purpose of gathering feedback was locked recycled actually from SiteFeedback into the recycled Bin.
It is very clear now that none of your Moderators want threads asking for improvements to the confirmation page. yeah you will say it was a little off-topic ..maybe. but not when i left it since i was planning to come back later with more on-topic feedback.
In fact if its very irritating having these threads in forum 137, make it against the rules add something to the Frequently Mentioned Issues that states
any thread asking for improvements to the confirmation page or any suggestion related to improve the marketplace will be recycled.
Period, end of Story.
okay, that was not the point. do whatever you want with your forums.
its been proven there is Favoritism in Gaia (like im not one of your favorite gaians, hehe..oh darn sweatdrop ) well, i wont go further in details.
ive never mispriced an item before. i try to be careful .
I'm only suggesting this because I seen people cry over their lost items.
oh yeah even though ive used the confirmation page 40,000 times in the last 4 years what if one day i made a mistake like that? indeed it will be my fault but... with the auto-commas implementation i will never ever make that mistake for sure. i guarantee 100 percent!
Please DARKNRGY,carbonphyber
this is feedback from the recycled thread 82552229
- - Synxified
I actually like this idea. I've never mispriced an item before, but many people I've met have.
A slight delay would be really handy for this type of situation and if it was an optional setting for the Marketplace, then it could help those who have mispriced items countless number of times.
I hate hearing the same story about them mispricing and PM'ing the buyer nicely about the situation and yet the buyer/vendor is too rude to even be nice enough to give the person's item back.
I don't care if it's to gain profit, this isn't the real world and people treating it like that... Where the hell is their brains? I mean, even if I did misprice an item on here, I'd be upset like any other person would be and probably freak out too, but I'd also look back and just see it as another heap of pixels.
And I'd also probably PM the buyer asking for the item back in exchange for the gold. But yeah, the whole delay before it actually being set into the market is a great idea. I know it might not be implemented into the site right away, but maybe in the next coming months or year it could be added.
Sleepie_Zz
The marketplace is the most important feature on this site. This is an avatar site after all for selling and buying items to make yourself look pretty. Any safe precaution made to the marketplace will benefit someone out there.
Mistakes happen and the extra time will help someone out there, might not be everyone, but it is helpful to some. Considering everyone uses the marketplace feature, some can amount to a lot of users on here.
When the Developers themselves had asked feedback on way to improve the current system. They can make this optional for people who choose not to have the delay.
IIwizardeigesII
I honestly didn't even know the just added section was there until i seen this thread,
i've always wonderd how the hell people buy listings within the first 5 seconds they are put up.
I've been here for years and never seen any mention of it...then again
I rarely use forums due to negativity in each and every single one of them, someone always has to argue and reject someones ideas, yeah big woop they are voicing their opinion,but it wouldnt hurt to give some support or at least don't freaking post if all one has is negativity to spread.
Seems messed up you never address this when I am one of the first people to post in the ATA.
Thank you for your time and I hope you can do something about this on going problem.
